TheMitchells Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 (edited) In our renovation, the middle room was always very dark as it has no natural light. We have removed the wall between that room and the kitchen which helps and on the other side, we have removed the plasterboard and exposed the staircase posts with the aim to leave some of it exposed, while plasterboarding the left hand half of it. the idea is to get some of the light from upstairs, down into that room. Also, as the space from the lounge into that room is rather tight, I want to remove completely the bottom-most post and instal new structural posts slightly further back to hold up the beam above. As this is structural, I did ask an engineer to check it was okay while he did the calculations for the kitchen rsj's. However, I cannot understand his report at all. This is the stairs as it was when we took off the platerboard. You'll notice that the 'posts' and cross pieces are all just tree branches, with the bark still attached. I guess there were no building regs in those days! Picture above is from the stair side and you can see the beam at the top which supports the upstairs. Here is a plan which I hope explains what we plan to do. The new plasterboard will cover the three old posts and the bottom triange between old post 3 and the bottom of the stairs. Between 'old post3, new post 1 and new post2, we plan to get glass from the balustrade companies if possible to allow light through and also, when entering the room from the front, it will open up the middle room in a much nicer way than previously. if the glass is too expensive, then good old fashioned spindles will have to do with a handrail. I am hoping someone can interpret the engineers report and confirm what I think he is saying, which is using C24 timber, using a 75 x 112 mm post, it must be within 1.2m of the wall. But I have been to a timber merchants and TPerkins and neither have C24 timber. I shall try another timber place tomorrow but it would be useful if I knew exactly what the report says we should do. Any advice will be gratefully received. ignore the first 10 pages as that relates to the rsj's for the kitchen which have all been done. And any suggestions of where to get the right timber posts. they need to be reasonably nice as I want them to be seen, maybe painted. AB2782-01 for pillar.pdf ab2782 calcualtions for pillar.pdf Picture of stairs as they are now. Edited July 17, 2017 by TheMitchells Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 I'm confused. Your third from last picture "picture of the stairs as they are now" shows a different structure with only 1 diagonal whereas your diagram shows 2, and the front post looks new. Almost as if this is a picture of what you want to achieve, but it looks like you have what you want?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Aside. Given the measures you have taken to increase light, have you considered a window in the gable wall? Tall and thin or wide and flat might work well if translucent. Or put a door sized mirror at the bottom of the stairs eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMitchells Posted July 17, 2017 Author Share Posted July 17, 2017 that diagonal will have to go and yes, we have added a couple of posts to hold up the beam while we get the proper posts. these ones are only things we had around and neither are structural. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMitchells Posted July 17, 2017 Author Share Posted July 17, 2017 Just now, Ferdinand said: Aside. Given the measures you have taken to increase light, have you considered a window in the gable wall? Tall and thin or wide and flat might work well if translucent. Or put a door sized mirror at the bottom of the stairs eventually. yes, I am considering a mirror. We will not be adding a window as we dont want to add costs that we probably will not a return back when we sell. Just painting the area white or pale colour will help - it was bright orange with black woodwork! Each to their own! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMitchells Posted July 17, 2017 Author Share Posted July 17, 2017 Please ignore the last two photo's - they werent supposed to be added and now I cannot delete them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 I once saw a faux Georgian window made from 300x300 mirror tiles and white PVC electrical trunking. It reflected "woodland" wallpaper on the opposite side of the bedroom. Sounds naff but very effective. The guy had even made drapes and a pelmet for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 (edited) @Onoff @TheMitchells This was a hotel room in London at the Tower Bridge Doubletree. Edited July 18, 2017 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 C24 is standard grade timber - I have a stack of it ..! 72x112 is a random size though - that's 3" x 4 1/4" in old money so you may struggle. I'd suggest going for 96x96 or 4x4 which is easily found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMitchells Posted July 17, 2017 Author Share Posted July 17, 2017 But is that what the engineer specified as I am not sure I understand his report?? Was I correct that this is what he is specifying? Thats the main question I am asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Right... wading through 14 pages of hand cranked calculations is always fun ....!! Not..!! The engineer has made some assumptions .. 1. That the existing beam supporting the floor above the stairs is C24 grade 72x112 (assume he's measured this) 2. That there will be no more than 1.25m from the wall to the first post. 3. The first upright post is 50x100 C24. From the drawing it looks like the first post is to be removed but from your photo it looks like there is a new post - what distance is the new post from the wall ..??? I would hazard a guess that EITHER : - the new post is non-structural and was put in when someone boxed up the staircase; Or - the joist above has shown some movement and they have put the new post in to hold up the joist therefore making it structural ..! There is no way I can tell from a photo what the right answer is so I would suggest you grab a tape measure and see how much space there is to the first post ..! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMitchells Posted July 18, 2017 Author Share Posted July 18, 2017 11 hours ago, PeterW said: Right... wading through 14 pages of hand cranked calculations is always fun ....!! Not..!! The engineer has made some assumptions .. 1. That the existing beam supporting the floor above the stairs is C24 grade 72x112 (assume he's measured this) 2. That there will be no more than 1.25m from the wall to the first post. 3. The first upright post is 50x100 C24. From the drawing it looks like the first post is to be removed but from your photo it looks like there is a new post - what distance is the new post from the wall ..??? I would hazard a guess that EITHER : - the new post is non-structural and was put in when someone boxed up the staircase; Or - the joist above has shown some movement and they have put the new post in to hold up the joist therefore making it structural ..! There is no way I can tell from a photo what the right answer is so I would suggest you grab a tape measure and see how much space there is to the first post ..! Thanks for looking Peter - I did say the first 10 pages were all to do with our kitchen rsj's and not this problem. I am sorry in that I have obviously confused you all - the newish bottom post currently there was put in by us, when we removed the two bottom most origonal posts. we thought we shuld put something in till we get the new stuff. re point 1. I dont know why the engineer assumed the wood to be C24 - they were just branches, cut to size and most still had the bark on. I will get a close up today. None of the origonal posts were anything like 50x100. but if thats the size we need, I can do that and yes, my new bottom most post (when we get it) will be within the 1.25m from the wall. So I think from all that, as long as I get 50x100 (actualy I will get 75mm as thats the current depth of the origonal posts) C24 and place it within 1.25m of the wall, it should be okay. I will try that and see if the Building Control like it! I doubt they'll come out just to look at a stair post but you never know? Thanks for all the imput. Will let you know how I get on with the BC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 So 75x100 is used as wallplate so should be widely available. C24 only relates to the grading quality - I would be happy with a 75x100 at 1.25m and then I would also look to remove the remaining posts and replace them with 50x100 with a decent 50x100 sole and top plate to ensure that it was all stable and nothing was going to move in the future. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 we plan to get glass from the balustrade companies Probably cheaper to go direct to a local glass merchants. Make templates out of plywood and tell them what it's for. I think the glass should be toughened glass and have a BS Kitemark or CE mark on each pane to meet building regs. You might consider specifying Optiwhite or "low iron" glass which is slightly less green at exposed edges but costs a bit more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMitchells Posted July 18, 2017 Author Share Posted July 18, 2017 I did speak to the Structural Engineer today to ask him what it is I need to do. He promised to ring me back in 20 mins. 12 hours later I am still waiting. He did say that using a hardwood would be fine as that would be better than C24. So I popped into a local woodworking place that does lots of projects including stairs. They quoted me £340 for 3 oak posts, planed to size. Which doesnt seem too bad, till I told the OH and he said 'no way'. I guess we could just put ordinary posts in and cover it with plasterboard but I had that vision of creating something that little bit differernt. Tomorrow I will ask at the BM about those 75x100 lengths.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 £340..??!!!! I'll do them for £275..... No.1.... your SE is talking out of his arse ..! Hardwood is NOT graded unless it's requested and stamped and I know of no-one who does C24 Oak so if that fails his PI won't pay out as it's not as per spec... No.2 .... isn't this an investment property ..?? If so, do some value engineering and lose the twiddly bits ... No.3 ... If you really want twiddly bits, carefully remove the rest of the posts and frame (acro first...) and then rebuild with some nice window shapes in it and get some 6mm laminated cut to size, fix with beads and Robert is your granny's son ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 +1 If you need "structural grade" oak you must make sure the sawmill knows that's what you need. Make sure it's written on the order. They might moan a bit but if you don't you might end up with a big knot right in the middle. You might also consider specifying "no sap wood". Sap wood can stay white while the rest of the oak goes a honey colour. Shop around as £340 a lot for three posts. This isn't planned so might end up too a bit too small but just for example.. http://www.uk-oak.co.uk/product/100_x_100_Air_Dried_Oak_Beams 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMitchells Posted July 19, 2017 Author Share Posted July 19, 2017 Blimey! I didnt realise this would be so complicated. This is the current state of the stairs. I have moved the orangy post which we had, next to the thrid old one and jammed it in really tight to give extra structural support to that large beam above. The plasterboard will go round and cover all of these on the left. Then I plan to get two nice posts and abutt one to the right of the orange post, which will have been covered by PB by then. And the far right post will also be replaced by a nice new post. and hopefully it will be filled in between by glass or if too expensive, some nice spindles. I think I wil get the stairs/woodworking company to come round and let them tell me what wood would be suitable. and price up for those spindles too. 15 hours ago, PeterW said: £340..??!!!! I'll do them for £275..... No.1.... your SE is talking out of his arse ..! Hardwood is NOT graded unless it's requested and stamped and I know of no-one who does C24 Oak so if that fails his PI won't pay out as it's not as per spec... No.2 .... isn't this an investment property ..?? If so, do some value engineering and lose the twiddly bits ... No.3 ... If you really want twiddly bits, carefully remove the rest of the posts and frame (acro first...) and then rebuild with some nice window shapes in it and get some 6mm laminated cut to size, fix with beads and Robert is your granny's son ... 1. what about delivery?? But thanks for the offer. I'm down to 2 posts so price is coming down. 2. I know.... but it will look nice! And its the one extravagance in the whole house. yes, it is to resell but it is the one feature that will be the 'nice' thing that we didnt need to do. And walking round from the lounge, it is nice to be able to see through intowards the kitchen. Shouldn't all houses have that little extra touch. 3. Its not that twiddly! It will look classy..... hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMitchells Posted July 19, 2017 Author Share Posted July 19, 2017 What was I worried about. I just spoke to Building Control and they are happy to issue the completion Certificate for the main work (removing the kitchen pillar and installing rsj's) which they checked and passed months ago. They dont need to come out for the stairs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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