New member... over budget at the start, what to do?

[worriedexpat]

Hi all, ok so this is sounding positive (for my pocket) that these figures are over-egged. The QS is on a fixed cost, is local and knows my family so I think he's legitimately trying to stop us going down a massively costly road.... He seems to think the architect has designed something more suitable for someone from upcountry with plenty of money (lots about) rather than a local trying to return home... but maybe he's over-egging it a bit?!

 

There was a positive meeting between architect and QS yesterday, they are identifying areas that can be clarified (and reduced) and then I hope we will put it out to tender and that will tell us what the real-world price is and if we need to change build system/start from scratch...  @Dave Jones Do you mean current build prices are 2k/m2 without foundations etc? So whichever build system we go for we would likely have to reduce the m2 anyway to get within budget?

 

@Mattg4321 my electrical needs are certainly nothing out of the ordinary, plenty of sockets but nothing fancy (no cctv or the like) - so sounds like that cost could be slashed to start with...

 

@SteamyTea I gather from some of your other posts that we are relatively near you (somewhere it rains/is about to rain all the time). Architect about an hour north and QS just round the corner.

 

@ToughButterCup I'm sure it would be easier if I was onsite, but without leaving my job (and having an even smaller budget to build with!) I'm unlilkely to get more than a few weeks at a time until the time I get to move home (and Ideally move into the house!)

 

Anyhow... thanks everyone for your input... I was really feeling pretty stressed and this has indicated to me that the actual price should be a fair bit lower, and that there are ways to reduce that further if needed. I'll let you all know what happens when we get a reality check from a local builder.

 

Thanks!

[Mattg4321]

Sockets are relatively cheap in new builds. Budget £70-100 per socket, supplied and installed, depending on where in the country and the finish of the socket. 
 

 

[SteamyTea]

  On 26/01/2023 at 18:39, worriedexpat said:

somewhere it rains/is about to rain all the time

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You will pay a premium.

Say you live in Mount Hawk, they are all unemployables there.

[Papillon]

2k/m2 with foundations is about average right now. Your QS is bonkers.

 

https://www.fleminghomes.co.uk/self-build-resources/cost-calculator/

 

stick your info in there, you’re fine.

[Andehh]

Just to only agree with comments above, we are 75% the way through construction on a big and complex bungalow with a high spec, and we are at £2300psqm. Midlands located, fully builder managed. 

 

Yours should be doable block wise for half your QS stated costs IMO. 

[AD1]

Those numbers are crazy!

 

I had some high prices come back when I was at the same stage as yourself and quickly found out that getting prices this early ends up with suppliers covering there backside with material prices being so volatile. 

 

I would suggest sending your plans of to estimators online and see what they come back with. Its probably the best £200 you'll spend at this stage. Give as much detail as you can. Then you can do your own costings, contact suppliers and get your own prices. 

 

Its really the only way to cost things accurately without lining QS and Merchants pockets.. 

 

 

AD

 

 

[Mr Punter]

£121,000 on the flat roof sounds completely ridiculous.

[SteamyTea]

  On 27/01/2023 at 16:04, Mr Punter said:

£121,000 on the flat roof sounds completely ridiculous.

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Can still buy a house in Cornwall for that money.

[Kelvin]

Every price is negotiable and they never start with their best price. Handing everything over to one company is adding many thousands to the cost for two reasons one of which is they aren’t as motivated as you to get the best price. Case in point. I’ve been finalising my borehole plant and sewerage treatment plant today. In the space of a 15 minute conversation I got £3000 off the total cost. Now I don’t reckon that’s down to my brilliant negotiating skills it’s more that everyone seems to take the piss until you ask but ask you must. 

[saveasteading]

  On 27/01/2023 at 17:20, Kelvin said:

they never start with their best price. Handing everything over to one company is adding many thousands 

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"They" meaning  contractors? Nor fair. Don't assume everyone is the same. My first price was the right price. If you want it cheaper use someone else or we can discuss some optional changes.

 

Of course others may quote too cheap then look for extras.

 

Ask by all means, but beware what might be changed in service of quality.

 

Except, to be open about it, when a repeat client always needed to negotiate a discount. Then you add 2% so it can come off again.

[Kelvin]

I always assume there is wiggle room with every price because in my personal experience with just about everything I’ve ever bought there has been with no difference in quality or at least to the quality I was happy with. If, on the odd occasion, they reply that’s my best price then so be it. 

Edited January 27, 2023 by Kelvin

[saveasteading]

One very good client (it turned out) called me to site after quotations and started by saying " we need to discuss the price".

OK say I, but it can only go up.

Or I can tell you where there are design simplifications. (All declined).

 

Good project, everyone happy, and a very good written client quote for the website.

[Kelvin]

That’s not the same thing though as it’s a bit hard to negotiate when you’ve already started as you have no leverage. You have some leverage before you decide who to go with as you can choose to go elsewhere. In the example above the guy even said to me you never start with your best price. An odd thing for a sales person to say. 

 

Another example from today. I got two warranty quotes back. One 30% higher than the other. They phoned me when I said I’d be going elsewhere and they offered to price match. Clearly their real price is the lower price but likely only because there will be a proportion of people who just pay whatever number they come up with. 

[saveasteading]

  On 27/01/2023 at 22:50, Kelvin said:

An odd thing for a sales person to say. 

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He works for a company that has a policy to start high, and quickly tells you he can do better. I don't give them a second chance.

Price matching is easy for businesses that don't have the skills/ethics to offer a competitive price. And they will be lacking in service too.

Others give the fair price every time.

I know which I prefer, but it can take some finding.

[SteamyTea]

  On 28/01/2023 at 09:05, saveasteading said:

they will be lacking in service too.

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Yes. Same is true in catering.

We once had a batch of bad processed vegetables. Was down to cold weather but the quality was very poor. We asked both our suppliers if they could do better. One said "sorry, that is the best I can do"

The other sent us an excellent sample to try.

We did not buy from them and the company no longer exists.

The other supplier is still about and actually write of a few hundred quid be because his quality had dropped. Cold weather storage problems again.

 

[Kelvin]

  On 28/01/2023 at 09:05, saveasteading said:

He works for a company that has a policy to start high, and quickly tells you he can do better. I don't give them a second chance.

Price matching is easy for businesses that don't have the skills/ethics to offer a competitive price. And they will be lacking in service too.

Others give the fair price every time.

I know which I prefer, but it can take some finding.

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The price matching example I gave is from a well known self build insurer many will have used. 
 

The sewerage pump example is from Scotland’s main pump distributer for that brand. 

[worriedexpat]

Hi all. Thanks everyone for all your input. We got an indicative cost back from a local contractor at 974,000. Given that we are currently overseas, have a hard budget limit (v limited borrowing options until we move home...and will struggle to move home without building the house!) I don't think we will be going ahead with the build as planned... Maybe the costs are OTT but we just can't take the risk to push ahead without a degree of certainty. Taking stock and looking into other options...likely better form factor and slightly smaller. Will update when we have narrowed down our options! Thanks again

[saveasteading]

I went back to your first post. You gave the architect a budget. Tenders came back over double.

Thd architect obv has no idea of costs  or perhaps doesn't care.

You would be entitled to dismiss without pay if your budget was fundamental and you can prove it.

 

Change architect?

 

I once had a project where we were recommended to resolve such an issue.  Project twice the budget.  I told the architect that i had an alternative solution but there was risk and the budget was not feasible. The architect said to me privately not to worry as clients always find more money. Appalling. I withdrew.

 

Beware. Wise to stop and think for a while.

[worriedexpat]

Thanks @saveasteading I'm finding it a bit upsetting as the architects are saying 'we could run the project within budget....but we won't do it for a fixed budget' and given the delay even getting to this point I'm just not willing to take that route. Think we will part company with the architects and take some time to make a new plan.. very sad as I've become very attached to our plans 😞 anyhow we are lucky...we have somewhere to live at the moment and a plot so the right solution will present itself. Thanks all