How to move light across ceiling

[Radian]

Our kitchen had a single pendant drop at the far end of a peninsular worktop which never really lit the surface very well so we recently bought a triple pendant unit which works better but having just fixed it to the ceiling as far over as possible (as determined by the cable position) it's still not sat entirely over the worktop:

 

 

It needs to be about 20cm to the left. Here's a close-up of the end where the cables come out the ceiling (originally into a pendant light pattress hence all the holes that need filling) and these cables are the reason I couldn't get it any further over:

 

 

There's a floor joist directly above the black metal case of the pendant unit (ideal from the point of view of fixing it to the ceiling) and I can just see that the cables for the original light pendant are clipped to the side of the joist immediately above where they come through. Ideally I would access all the wiring from above and just move it over to a new hole but the room above has fitted furniture which makes this impossible without doing some major deconstruction.

 

I'm not quite sure how to proceed. I don't want to enlarge the existing hole for the cables any more than I have to as it will all need filling. I don't know how much spare cable there is either. I can cut a new hole for the cable drop further along but again, I don't want to make the new hole too big as it's right out at the edge of the metal box. It's also a pain that there are three cables to terminate as the live and neutral is looped out to other ceiling lights. I'm not sure my luck would hold out if I pushed them all up into the ceiling void and tried to pull them back out again through another hole.

 

Anyone got any bright ideas?

[ProDave]

Just to clarify. is the joist running parallel with the light fitting? or crossing it perpendicular?

 

The number of cables suggests it is wired "loop at light"  can you confirm?

 

If so I would cut a small hole in the plasterboard straddling a joist. Yes really.  This will give you room to terminate all the cables with maintenance free terminals in a suitable box with just one outgoing cable to the light fitting.

 

Screw the square of plasterboard back to the joist, easy as it was cut straddling the joist, fill the gap where it was cut and paint.

[TonyT]

Looks like 3 twin and earths from the photo so totally agree with Dave above.

Live/Line and Neutral in - 1 cable

Live/Line and Neutral out- 1 cable

1 Live/Line and Switch wire - 1 cable

 

[Radian]

The long black box runs parallel to the joist and is barely wider than it (about 57mm wide on a 47mm joist):

 

Of the three cables, one is 4-way with a red sleeved "switched live" to this fitting, and three other sets of lives neutrals and CPC's are connected in parallel.

[Radian]

Oh yeah, I forgot, I took a photo before I started:

 

[Russdl]

If you don’t want to cut out a bit of PB which would still work  how about making a painted plinth (MDF) for the light to stand on?

 

Bigger than the light base and hollow so you can dig holes all over the ceiling to fix the wiring and then the painted plinth will hide the carnage and the light fitting fits over the plinth. 

[Radian]

10 hours ago, ProDave said:

If so I would cut a small hole in the plasterboard straddling a joist. Yes really.  This will give you room to terminate all the cables with maintenance free terminals in a suitable box with just one outgoing cable to the light fitting.

 

You mean just enlarge the current hole by enough to get the three cables plus a new one (for the light fitting) up above the plasterboard? If I could pull the cables down far enough to strip more of the outer sheath and work with individual wires I might be able to use twist connectors to join them and push them through one at time I suppose. I think that Wagos would be too bulky.

[Radian]

51 minutes ago, Russdl said:

If you don’t want to cut out a bit of PB which would still work  how about making a painted plinth (MDF) for the light to stand on?

 

Bigger than the light base and hollow so you can dig holes all over the ceiling to fix the wiring and then the painted plinth will hide the carnage and the light fitting fits over the plinth. 

 

That was my first idea too but it was rejected by the committee 😑

[Russdl]

Tell the ‘committee’ that she doesn’t know what she’s on about. it will look great 😃

[Russdl]

19 minutes ago, Radian said:

You mean just enlarge the current hole by enough to get the three cables plus a new one (for the light fitting) up above the plasterboard?

If you choose that route cut out a much bigger section of PB so you can work unhindered. When you have the cables where you want, refit the previously cut out section of PB and fill the joins. It will be an invisible job after a bit of decoration. 

[Radian]

49 minutes ago, Russdl said:

If you choose that route cut out a much bigger section of PB so you can work unhindered. When you have the cables where you want, refit the previously cut out section of PB and fill the joins. It will be an invisible job after a bit of decoration. 

 

It looks like I either have to:

• cut a hole big enough to get a junction box or crimps through the plasterboard and fish a new cable over to the fitting from there.
• cut a narrow slot (the width of the cables) along the edge of the joist and push the cables across to the new location.

The first option means fixing the cut-out piece back in place (after fixing a support batten straddling the hole) and the cut out piece already has a big hole in it so it will be quite fragile. Ironically I was going to use downlighters instead of the pendant but when I found the original pattress was screwed to a joist I gave up on that idea. On reflection, I could have installed simple can-less downlight frames close to the edge of the joist and possibly even lost the cable hole under the downlight flange.

 

The second option requires a 20cm long slot but it's only 5mm wide so should be easy enough to fill without having to reposition any plasterboard pieces. Also, the cables can terminate in the light fittings connector block as they do now. It does mean I have to get lucky and have enough slack cable to reach over though.

[MikeSharp01]

How about the whole reframe thing. Convert the current connector into a great looking pendant fitting, perhaps black to match the light fitting, get some similarly great looking  cotton covered cord and run (loop down, over and then up) it into neat gland (you will perhaps need to spray that one) on the pendant box which can then go anywhere you like. See what the committee says.

[ProDave]

3 hours ago, Radian said:

The first option means fixing the cut-out piece back in place (after fixing a support batten straddling the hole) and the cut out piece already has a big hole in it so it will be quite fragile

I am talking of cutting a square about 4 inches /100mm square, with one edge of it at least on the centreline of the joist.  You can than connect properly with maintenance free terminals in a junction box.  Push that up into the ceiling, thread your new output cable to where you want it then screw your square of plasterboard back to the joist, or if you have some spare offcuts of PB cut a new square the same size that won't have the original hole in it.

 

It is easy then to fill the gap with sandable filler, and end up with an invisible repair that can be painted.

 

I very much doubt there will be enough slack on the existing cables to move the whole bundle over.

[Radian]

2 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said:

How about the whole reframe thing. Convert the current connector into a great looking pendant fitting, perhaps black to match the light fitting, get some similarly great looking  cotton covered cord and run (loop down, over and then up) it into neat gland (you will perhaps need to spray that one) on the pendant box which can then go anywhere you like. See what the committee says.

 

Yes, a good suggestion for an entirely different approach. I would personally prefer using a black trunking surface box and a short length of round trunking to link across but the committee didn't like either option.

 

5 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I am talking of cutting a square about 4 inches /100mm square, with one edge of it at least on the centreline of the joist.  You can than connect properly with maintenance free terminals in a junction box.  Push that up into the ceiling, thread your new output cable to where you want it then screw your square of plasterboard back to the joist, or if you have some spare offcuts of PB cut a new square the same size that won't have the original hole in it.

 

Gotcha. So the joist supports one part of the cut out piece when I go to screw it back in place. Yes, that's also a good suggestion. I'm now in the awkward position of actually having to choose between all these ideas!

[Temp]

I would  work out which way the wires go in the ceiling and/or how much slack cable there is, and which way the joists run.

 

If you get lucky making a hole 20cm to the left and moving the wires might be easy

 

There are vids on YouTube about repairing plaster board.