Barn style design

[Amateur bob]

1 minute ago, Bozza said:

@Amateur bob   I’m 99% certain if planners are asking for barn/agricultural style you won’t get PP for that.  It’s just a normal house with arches (which you can’t afford anyway) with stone (that you also can’t afford).

 

I fear you are in a cycle of wasting money with your designer. 
Take pictures of original barns and agricultural building in your area.  Post them here.  They are likely to have 45deg roofs and probably longer thinner.  That’s the shape you need.  @saveasteading is 100% right about materials etc so I would repeat what he’s saying.   
 

please stop getting your designer to design your house, especially if you are paying him.  If he knew what he was on about you’d have PP by now.

 

Don’t forget the people here advising you have successfully secured PP so we do know what we’re in about.  
 

Start again.  Post plot pics, local pics, your full circs family nee etc.  without all that our advice is largely useless.

 

 

ive been reading it again the planners didnt say specifically barn style they said 

 

The external finishes should reflect buildings in the vicinity and follow design guidelines in the PKC placemaking guide. E.g. is buff stone as proposed characteristic of the buildings in the area?Traditional materials such as slate roof and timber windows and doors would be appropriate

 

so the designer has changed these materials on the drawing and lowered the ridge height from 2 storey and added these arches, like you say though mabye we should change the arches back and make it white render with possibly some stone features?

 

one of the ideas behind going all sandstone was that its one trade rather than 2

[saveasteading]

5 minutes ago, Amateur bob said:

a traditional style farmhouse?

didnt have arches: they are for carts.

A landowning farmer would have a mansion. A labourer would have a very small house with no insulation or services,.

 

What you have been asked for is something that looks like a converted barn, not a farmhouse.

[Bozza]

7 minutes ago, Amateur bob said:

its already double fronted isit not? is there ways to make this design look like a traditional style farmhouse?

There is no point if the planners are asking for barn style.  

[Amateur bob]

Just now, Bozza said:

There is no point if the planners are asking for barn style.  

The external finishes should reflect buildings in the vicinity and follow design guidelines in the PKC placemaking guide. E.g. is buff stone as proposed characteristic of the buildings in the area?Traditional materials such as slate roof and timber windows and doors would be appropriate

 

heres what they said , we origionally thought barn style could please them but designer has adapted origional drawing to see what i thought as he has a lot of the detailed internal drawings etc already done for it 

[saveasteading]

1 minute ago, Amateur bob said:

the planners didnt say specifically barn style they said 

Ahhh. So that is Perth and Kinross.

It is a large and varied area so there will be plenty of styles around, and not be as specific as that example.

Best read the guide backwards and forwards, looking for clues that suit what you can afford.

And as we all keep saying, look at what has been built nearby.  That is the first thing they say....buildings in the vicinity.

 

[saveasteading]

Can I suggest something?

 

There is a danger of losing our interest when we make suggestions but you don't appear to be listening or agreeing.

Not agreeing is ok, but do say.

 

How about you do as we have collectively suggested? Take a week to look at nearby buildings, new and old,that can be your guidelines.

Then you can choose elements that suit what you want to do, and the planners will have your references when assessing it..

Also look online  at recent applications. The drawings and discussions will be a huge help to what they are accepting and what  you like yourself.

I predict less  stone and slate than they are suggesting.

 

Have you looked at the P and K Planning portal ? 

 

Then send us some pics and a summary of what you have found out.

 

 

[Bozza]

13 minutes ago, Amateur bob said:

The external finishes should reflect buildings in the vicinity and follow design guidelines in the PKC placemaking guide. E.g. is buff stone as proposed characteristic of the buildings in the area?Traditional materials such as slate roof and timber windows and doors would be appropriate

 

heres what they said , we origionally thought barn style could please them but designer has adapted origional drawing to see what i thought as he has a lot of the detailed internal drawings etc already done for it 

Well in that case you’ll need to find example of old traditional vernacular barns and agricultural building in your area that are the same shape as your rejected house.  They won’t exist. That’s why you’ve been rejected.   Sorry but you’re almost certainly going to have start over.  
 

Your layout is defined by the external shape,  the external shape likely needs to change so your layout will have to to I’m afraid.    
 

Unless you build a massive barn and pop your house inside like a Russian doll.

 

[Bozza]

When a bouncer doesn’t let you in Bob because your wearing trainers and you need to wear shoes, what you don’t do is go home and change to another pair of trainers hoping you’ll still get in.    

[saveasteading]

There aren't a lot of rural houses being planned.  here is one  to show I can find them , but isn't  good news...stone, slate , complex.

https://planningapps.pkc.gov.uk/online-applications/files/6317B957BCF1E331336618B4A071BE77/pdf/22_01606_FLL-PLANS_AND_ELEVATIONS_AS_PROPOSED-1876306.pdf

 

Make sure to search for 'new dwellinghouse' to confine the list.

 

Out.

 

[Amateur bob]

8 minutes ago, Bozza said:

Well in that case you’ll need to find example of old traditional vernacular barns and agricultural building in your area that are the same shape as your rejected house.  They won’t exist. That’s why you’ve been rejected.   Sorry but you’re almost certainly going to have start over.  
 

Your layout is defined by the external shape,  the external shape likely needs to change so your layout will have to to I’m afraid.    
 

Unless you build a massive barn and pop your house inside like a Russian doll.

 

I shouldve mentioned one of the main reasons for objection was the site was too far out from the steading, i have done a preapplication for a new site which they say fits better into the existing building group but they said the 2 storey design and pvc windows, concrete roof tiles etc were an issue thats why we thought mabye try and alter the design and see how it looks before doing anything radical, thanks for your comments you clearly have a good knowledge of this subject just thought id mention about the site

[Amateur bob]

1 minute ago, saveasteading said:

There aren't a lot of rural houses being planned.  here is one  to show I can find them , but isn't  good news...stone, slate , complex.

https://planningapps.pkc.gov.uk/online-applications/files/6317B957BCF1E331336618B4A071BE77/pdf/22_01606_FLL-PLANS_AND_ELEVATIONS_AS_PROPOSED-1876306.pdf

 

Make sure to search for 'new dwellinghouse' to confine the list.

 

Out.

 

It says document unavailable

[Amateur bob]

19 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Can I suggest something?

 

There is a danger of losing our interest when we make suggestions but you don't appear to be listening or agreeing.

Not agreeing is ok, but do say.

 

How about you do as we have collectively suggested? Take a week to look at nearby buildings, new and old,that can be your guidelines.

Then you can choose elements that suit what you want to do, and the planners will have your references when assessing it..

Also look online  at recent applications. The drawings and discussions will be a huge help to what they are accepting and what  you like yourself.

I predict less  stone and slate than they are suggesting.

 

Have you looked at the P and K Planning portal ? 

 

Then send us some pics and a summary of what you have found out.

 

 

Sorry i shouldve replied in more detail i was on a tractor so was trying to reply quickly to everyone, i have looked but the only rural houses that have been passed around here recently are steading developments and it seems theyve been getting away with murder basically like town houses in the country which was why we thought origional design wouldnt be such an issue and cheap to build, as i mentioned in another post there one of the main reasons for refusal was the site was too far out of the steading so we have done a preapplication for a new site which theyve said fits better with existing building group, they want the slate roof, timber windows and door etc though and dont want 2 storey which is why we thought of tweaking the origional design, thanks for all your feedback you have been most helpful

[saveasteading]

5 minutes ago, Amateur bob said:

getting away with murder basically like town houses in the country

as long as they keep the footprint there are special dispensations due to it being an existing building.

 

the link worked for me again. maybe you will have to approach it from the base website 

p and k planning.

 

 

[Papillon]

Quote

follow the design guidelines in the PKCplacemaking guide

 

I mean, it’s not rocket surgery. Have you read it through? 

I do like it when a local authority makes these, even though they are all 1970s photocopies scanned on to their portal. They are at least an explanation as to why they think the way they do. 
 

If you want something that is against policy, you have to justify it.

 

You need a designer who can design something in keeping, that’s not ugly, that can be justified and on budget. Please can you just get one.

[Kelvin]

I suggest you look at the P&K planning portal. Search for houses in your rough area and see what has achieved planning. I spent hours looking at the planning portal which proved worthwhile for solving a few issues that came up with ours. I also drove around the area taking pictures of new builds. There’s a wide variety styles  that get built. P&K is quite pragmatic though. 

Edited January 6, 2023 by Kelvin

[Buzz]

@Amateur bob the way I see it is you have 3 decisions to make in harmony with each other, 

1, have a house designed that you like and want to commit to.

2, have a house designed that you can afford to build 

3, have a house designed that will get through planning. 

There will most likely need be some give and take to tick all 3 off the list .

Number 3, I cannot offer any additional advice other than the above comments regarding planning portal approvals and driving around to see what else is being built is where I would start .

Number 2 , your budget for 180m2 seems modest but realistic and I personally don't think you are limited to just a box shape either just don't go to mad and you should be fine.

Numder 1 , for this i would put 2 and 3 to the back of your mind and start here, find a style that you love, get you architect to take that style and design 180m2 version for your needs and suits the plot you intend to build on , then you can get it priced and make adjustments if needed to bring the costs in line with budget then send to planning and make any amendments they recommend or insist on to get approval.  

When we first started this process the large bungalow designs found here https://scotframe.co.uk/selfbuild/rural-homes-collection/ were our starring point for the first sketches. 

 

[Amateur bob]

9 hours ago, Buzz said:

@Amateur bob the way I see it is you have 3 decisions to make in harmony with each other, 

1, have a house designed that you like and want to commit to.

2, have a house designed that you can afford to build 

3, have a house designed that will get through planning. 

There will most likely need be some give and take to tick all 3 off the list .

Number 3, I cannot offer any additional advice other than the above comments regarding planning portal approvals and driving around to see what else is being built is where I would start .

Number 2 , your budget for 180m2 seems modest but realistic and I personally don't think you are limited to just a box shape either just don't go to mad and you should be fine.

Numder 1 , for this i would put 2 and 3 to the back of your mind and start here, find a style that you love, get you architect to take that style and design 180m2 version for your needs and suits the plot you intend to build on , then you can get it priced and make adjustments if needed to bring the costs in line with budget then send to planning and make any amendments they recommend or insist on to get approval.  

When we first started this process the large bungalow designs found here https://scotframe.co.uk/selfbuild/rural-homes-collection/ were our starring point for the first sketches. 

 

Thanks yes ive had a good look through these scotframe ones, i liked the origional design we put in but they didnt want 2 storey and said it looked too suburban so thats why we were adapting it, im not sure of the new look though whats your own personal thoughts on it, do u like the arches and dormsr windows?

 

Thanks

[Papillon]

I forgot to add, the design with the arches and dormer windows is not very good from a design point of view. It doesn’t fit with the local style and it’s really ugly.

 

from the place making guide you have to follow:

 

Using existing onsite timber and stone, this award winning contemporary, sustainable home, has been designed with careful consideration to its context through form and finish.

Built within budget ethos; this award winning building shows how appreciation for context and a subtle application of high quality building materials are two basic elements to get right for  a well considered design solution whilst not having to cost the world.

 

  https://www.wowhaus.co.uk/2014/05/02/on-the-market-cedar-house-modernist-property-in-chapelhill-logiealmond-perthshire/

 

 

Edited January 7, 2023 by Papillon

[Kelvin]

18 minutes ago, Amateur bob said:

Thanks yes ive had a good look through these scotframe ones, i liked the origional design we put in but they didnt want 2 storey and said it looked too suburban so thats why we were adapting it, im not sure of the new look though whats your own personal thoughts on it, do u like the arches and dormsr windows?

 

Thanks

I’m surprised your architect submitted a 2 storey design. It’s not common to get that approved in rural Scotland. The adapted design is still too suburban.  Contemporary designs can get approved but they are still designed to meet the local vernacular. For example this was built just down the road from us. It’s within a farm setting. 
 

 

 

 

 

[NickK]

Wasn’t this one featured on GD House of the year? I remember there was one with similar looking fancy roofs. I like it. Probably not cheap.

 

[Mr Punter]

You could look at some plans and see what would suit.  These are from an Irish site: http://blueprinthomeplans.ie/houseplans-sc.asp?sC_ID=117 but I am sure there are Scottish examples.

 

I quite like this sort of thing but maybe without the side bits:

 

 

Edited January 7, 2023 by Mr Punter

[Papillon]

3 hours ago, NickK said:

Wasn’t this one featured on GD House of the year? I remember there was one with similar looking fancy roofs. I like it. Probably not cheap.

 

You can buy it for 449,000, or steal its ideas for nothing!

[NickK]

Is it for sale? That’s not bad price, is it?

[Amateur bob]

4 hours ago, Papillon said:

I forgot to add, the design with the arches and dormer windows is not very good from a design point of view. It doesn’t fit with the local style and it’s really ugly.

 

from the place making guide you have to follow:

 

Using existing onsite timber and stone, this award winning contemporary, sustainable home, has been designed with careful consideration to its context through form and finish.

Built within budget ethos; this award winning building shows how appreciation for context and a subtle application of high quality building materials are two basic elements to get right for  a well considered design solution whilst not having to cost the world.

 

  https://www.wowhaus.co.uk/2014/05/02/on-the-market-cedar-house-modernist-property-in-chapelhill-logiealmond-perthshire/

 

 

These designs with all the glass etc are very expensive to build are they now? Cost is a big factor as well as design ill attach a pic i saw on the rob roy website of one with an arch it doesnt look that bad does it?

[Amateur bob]

2 hours ago, Mr Punter said:

You could look at some plans and see what would suit.  These are from an Irish site: http://blueprinthomeplans.ie/houseplans-sc.asp?sC_ID=117 but I am sure there are Scottish examples.

 

I quite like this sort of thing but maybe without the side bits:

 

 

Ill attach a similar one i saw on scotframes website what do you think of this compared to my design?