Scot Gov to change to passivehous for new build homes

[Gus Potter]

Yes potential big changes ahead!

 

In Scotland we have been doing TF for a long time. I remember having discussions about having to jump from a 95mm stud to a 145mm deep stud to get enough glass wool in, no insulated plasterboard, air tightness (tapes and so on) was something that we needed on the space station / for astronauts but not that much to do with us.

 

5 hours ago, JohnMo said:

So architects will all need more training, builders and all other trades, will need more training also, big builders will all push back.

Yes. The last time there was big step change in the building regs all the "greenies" came up with these ideas.. in Scotland they produced insulation standard details.. and they came to present to the IStructE (the SE crowd) where I asked if they had given any consideration as to how their changes may impact on the structural design and just how environmentally friendly their ideas were.. did they know about the unforseen consequences? .. say diaphragm action.. this is where we use say walls and floors to stiffen and make a building safe.. blank faces all round there!

 

They clearly were implementing policy with no idea about holistic design. I think this will be the same case. As before some folk are going to feather their nest at the public's expense.

 

If you want to achieve good environmental design then it takes time and thought.. unfortunately most of the policy makers are just looking forward to the next election rather than say over the next 25 years.

 

It can be done and all the professions will adapt eventually.

 

I am big supporter of good practical design that is of real benefit to the planet.

 

Maybe using cold formed steel in the domestic market will make a comeback.. in which case

 

 

 

 

 

[jonM]

Change is always difficult and will require current practices to be adopted, but airtight, well insulated houses with mvhr are definitely the way to go. If the changes are planned in advance and training is made available and funded there is no reason why it can't work. My builder was an electrician by trade but focused on building houses to passivhaus standards (including one for himself) because he could see the huge benefit. He was able to adopt to this way of working without too much difficulty. 

When companies are faced with adapting or going out of business, most will adapt but the longer the change is delayed, the greater the problem with the existing housing stock becomes. 

The biggest problem is likely to be political and in particular lobbying from the building industry to preserve the status quo. In addition the level of ignorance from so-called "experts" is astounding. I remember going on a training course at the NSBRC and being told by the lecturer that he wouldn't recommend building Passivhaus because you couldn't hear the birds sing in the morning !

Education needs go hand in hand with legislation and some financial support to allow the transition to be made. 

[Carrerahill]

On 16/12/2022 at 15:00, JohnMo said:

So architects will all need more training, builders and all other trades, will need more training also, big builders will all push back.

This has begun I would say, I am in building services consultancy and we have had to jump through hoops and over a few hurdles over the past 18 months to get buildings to work, the steepest learning curve was getting buildings to comply with the London Environmental Strategy, once we solved that it was easy to make other buildings work up and down the country.

 

We are recovering heat left right and centre and working with more and more onerous figures and thinking outside the box. No training though, as engineers we saw it as a problem to solve and we got on with it. Most of the "training" would be through CPD's which are usually delivered by manufacturers, always with a hidden sales pitch (CPD's are meant to be unbiased, and cannot directly involve a product/service they sell). But it is always then followed by, "Oh by the way, we can sell you these which complies with all of that". So they are not good forums for learning. 

 

The electrical regs had a shake up in September, you buy the book, digest it and design to that standard, very little is via training.

 

I will give you a key example of "training" that caused issues. Gyproc went around architects, builders and building control departments and did a CPD on fire rating plasterboard walls. It was pretty common to use a double sheet of 12.5mm to achieve 1 hour fire rating. However, Gyproc wanted to sell fireboard so basically did a CPD and released a white paper which muddied the waters and clouded the BCO's better judgement, which was the dawn of fireboard and 12.5mm board to get your 1 hour! The only person who won was the manufacturer and maybe the sheeting contractor. 

 

 

 

 

[Iceverge]

I commend this approach. 

 

Passivhaus is the finish line in terms of insulation, airtightness, occupant comfort and health and building longevity.  Also it's very simple to understand Vs Bregs. 

 

When you know where you're going why not skip straight to the end. 

 

Industry will drag it's heals and complain, it always does. Then it'll adapt and the best companies will do well and the worst will die.

 

Pain enroute, of course but probably better to have all that pain in 10 years  and good houses forevermore rather than spread out over 50 years and 5 changes to the Bregs in the meantime. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ferdinand]

On 16/12/2022 at 15:03, ProDave said:

Passivehoose

 

That's one way to avoid the licensing fee !

 

One comparison of interest will be with the target for the English regs for 2025, which on the numbers seems quite demanding.

 

Another is whether they will be able to implement a proper inspection regime (assuming the current one is sample based with informal advanced knowledge for the developer as to which ones will be checked).

 

F

[Roger440]

6 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

 

That's one way to avoid the licensing fee !

 

One comparison of interest will be with the target for the English regs for 2025, which on the numbers seems quite demanding.

 

Another is whether they will be able to implement a proper inspection regime (assuming the current one is sample based with informal advanced knowledge for the developer as to which ones will be checked).

 

F

 

There will never be a proper inspection regime.

 

1, Not enough people who understand.

2, Bugger all would actually get built.

 

The regs will change, and new more inventive solutions found to sign off.

 

Building control is totally unfit for purpose and is just "gamed".

 

I may have mentioned it before (!) but Ive a whole suite of certificates. Not one job is fully compliant to the regs in force at the time. Some not all.