Bats & Newts

[MDC]

Thank you @ToughButterCup. Just when I thought I might be watching the snow melt; instead  I'll be pouring over your reading list, RAMS, and considering the path of least resistance to lighten the potential ecological burden of my planning application. Your post is much appreciated.

[ToughButterCup]

Pleasure @MDC.

Read up on all of your LPA  decisions where ecology was involved. Read between the lines. 

 

Work out which ecologist the LPA uses to make the 'expert ' decisions for them. (The Planner couldn't give a stuff - they just act on the ecologists recommendation). Then look up that ecologists (expert's) work and read every single one of his / her recommendations. Work out who he / she works with. Nods and winks work on their networks as well as any other professional network.

 

Then - if you have to - talk to a range of ecologists who could possibly work for you, and read (say) the last 6 reports they submitted. There'll be one or two that are close to your ' specification'  . 

 

Try hard not to be annoyed at the amount of copy>and>pasting that goes on. Whe I retire from my retirement activity (house building) , I'm going to call myself an Ecological Technician  (as in Architect, Architectural technician). Then copy and paste till my hearts content and get paid for it.  

 

Friday Night - International Party Night. Have a good one.

Ian

 

 

[ProDave]

1 hour ago, ToughButterCup said:

 

Summary: Delay your project by one year. In that year, kill the wildlife. Then get the ecologist back. 

 

What sort of idiot posts that kind of nonsense?

 

I'm not an idiot. But that is the truthful sum of my experience in three sentences. That is what happens locally: I have seen local farmers  do that. I have talked to the ecologists who have worked on those farms, I have talked to the farmers. I know them well enough for our dogs to be on good arse-sniffing terms

 

I have bitter experience of following the ecology guidelines to-the-letter, (I'm German - zero imagination in relation to telling the authorities to get stuffed) and watching a neighbour take all the information I paid for (£2500 worth of work) and apply it to his own Planning Application - then submit that stolen information (plagiarised?)  to a different Ecologist, and get a recommendation for a RAMS (Reasonable Attenuation Statement - cost? a few quid) - whereas I had to spend about £6000 sorting it all out. 

 

Having thus raised my BP to 190 over 60, here's a reading list for you.

 

I am not arguing you should kill any wildlife. Ever. 

 

Can't take a joke? Don't apply for planning permission.

 

 

The fact that much of what you say is sadly a symptom of "over burdened with silly rules"

 

If the environmental / wildlife rules were simple, cheap and logical everybody, including farmers, would abide by them and wildlife would be better for it.

 

Put too many stupid, over expensive, over time consuming and bureaucratic rules and a percentage will do as your farmers and the result is "what wildlife, there is nothing in this stinking pond"

 

But the people  that make the rules cannot see this is happening and their rules ARE the problem.

 

We were lucky here that there were never any wildlife hoops to jump through, in spite of having a burn running through the site, and I know there are bats here, you see them flying about at dusk.  The result of no silly rules is we just got on with is sympathetically.  We did not harm the burn but neither did we need any tests, rules or barriers to ensure we did not harm it.  There were no buildings on our site so the bats were not living there so we did not need a survey to tell us there were no bats put in danger. We just got on with it.  We did not need someone to tell me there was a root protection zone around a tree and put a barrier to show it, we just knew not to undermine the roots of a tree.  The trees are still there without a survey or silly rules to protect them.

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

 

But the people  that make the rules cannot see this is happening and their rules ARE the problem

Like our rules that force some people to take the risks of fatal illegal routes into the UK.

Costs more and does not work.

[ToughButterCup]

2 hours ago, ProDave said:

...

But the people  that make the rules cannot see this (overburdening) is happening and their rules ARE the problem.

...

 

The Natural Environment and Rural Communities Act 2006 has a noble aim 

 

Give 'experts'  the responsibility of operationalising  the Act (to whom else would we give it ? ) means that of course ecologists see an income stream, and disappear up their collective fundaments standing on every last detail.

 

Except, not every expert does has his head in his Botticelli.

 

The experience from the Planning Application for the house next to mine shows that ecologists can actually be sensible: a RAMS is - here - absolutely fine. So why not for our place? My ecologist got it wrong, next door's ecologist got it right. 

I paid half my ecologists bill and asked him to justify why I should pay him the balance.  No response.

 

The exception proves the rule. Again.

 

[Canski]

@ToughButterCupI've just been reading through your experiences. You have had a tough time.

 

I think I may stop thinking that I'm almost there and resign myself to another year of Wer shreibt der bleibt. The system is designed to cause maximum delays and costs to the developer / self builder. It boils my wee wee. Since covid I feel that everybody has took their foot off the gas and all organisations have become so inefficient at the cost of the tax payer and service user.

I should have retired when I had the chance. In my next life I will be an ecologist.

 

[Post and beam]

With reference to the 'copy and paste ' comment earlier.

My preliminary ecological survey was what subsequently resulted in a recommendation for me to get the Reptile mitigation survey, at £1066 i might add. I spoke to the woman that was going to do this and asked her what time i should be on site.

The reply was' oh, this is a desk top survey, i dont need to come to site'  !!!

When the report was then presented to me it was almost an exact copy and paste of the previous Preliminary ecological survey. I challenged the cost of it and got a bland response from the consulting agency.

So

i challenged it again  and showed them a comparision between the two reports to highlight, in bold colours, that there were no more than 6 sentences of original content in the Reptile plan. 6 sentences for £1066

 

They relented and gave me back £828

Know what you are doing , what they are doing and dont be afraid to call them out.

Regards

keith

[ToughButterCup]

49 minutes ago, Canski said:

... resign myself to another year of Wer schreibt der bleibt. ...

 

Genau !

My wife while running a university department supervises people doing their doctorate. About 4 years in to our build she looked me straight in the eye and said ....

 

" You know how doing a doctorate hardens you off (wer schreibt) : well this (proper) self-build has done the same to you: you've really got to stick at it. (der bleibt)"  You've also got to master the detail. Every damn time.

 

Yes, COVID and Br(shhhh)it are often put to 'good' use these days I feel. 

 

@Post and beam all power to your elbow. Really pleased to hear that story.  6 sentences for a grand indeed. In my neighbours (unlawful) application it was almost a complete report for free. 

 

Lets all three of us start an Ecology Collective: Buttercup Beam and Cando.   

Strapline: Ecology Reports Professionally Copied and Pasted - Self Builds a speciality

 

[MDC]

Following @ToughButterCup's advice, I've had a look at local planning permissions near my potential project. The standard condition seems to be follow the instructions of the initial Ecology report. In my case, this will be a bat survey between May and August. My best hope is bats view the existing house with distaste and [like me] refuse to breed and/or hibernate there. 

 

However, one thing leads to another. I had to pay the best part of £1k for the initial survey, which was issued on payment. I immediately received a quote for next May's bat survey, at £4,000 plus vat, for two people over two visits at dusk. If they find a bat, I'm in for it, as everybody has been telling me. I haven't accepted the quote. 

 

I read a report where the Ecologists noticed bats buzzing about, but none settled in/on the house in question, so that was that. Except, given the bats in flight, they recommended demolition [in part by hand] in winter - 8 months later. As it happens the original house is still standing three years later, as the plot was sold on, and a further planning permission refused. 

 

The more I read about this,  arson seems an option. Well, it's not demolition and it is quick. 

 

Following @ragg987's comment on a post from 2017, I'll speak the council in due course and ask if they'll come and inspect at a much lower fee.