YALANCT (Yet Another Loxone And Network Cabling Thread)

[Thorfun]

btw.....if i were to use Tree cable i wouldn't buy the overpriced Loxone stuff. this from FS Cables is a lot cheaper. https://www.fscables.com/products/tree-cable-jumper-wire-designed-for-loxone-system.html

[joth]

3 hours ago, Thorfun said:

hi all. thought i'd done with this thread but as i start fitting out the basement i realise that i could do with more opinions on a few things.

 

my cabinet is pretty full and i have very few relays free or channels left on my DMX 24V RGBW WhiteWing dimmer. As such i'm thinking about fitting the Loxone RGBW Tree Spots (recessed) in our music room.

 

Just wondering if anyone has an opinion on them apart from being expensive!

 

i've looked at using Voltus RGBW bulbs but they're over €50 each and when you take in to account the fittings as well it's not too much less than the Loxone spots and then i'd need relays to control them whereas the Loxone ones are simply tree controlled. so it's much easier and probably cheaper in the end!

 

the other thing is that i will probably use standard retractive switches to control the lights and so will need to run a separate Cat6a cable so i'm thinking it's not worth using Loxone Tree cable as i'd still have to run 2 x cables anyway. so i've got Cat6a leftover from the rest of the cabling and i was thinking of using that and running 1.5mm 2-core flex along with it. is that ok to do? would folk recommend running standard 1.5mm T&E even though i don't need the earth for 24V lighting? cost difference between the 2 isn't much but T&E is stiffer cable and harder to run.

 

just looking for opinions please. 🙂 

What are your lighting requirements? To me basement with retractive switches sounds like basic GU10s would be fine... But it seems like RGBW is non negotiable?

If so yeah the Loxone offerings are going to give all the lighting you need without any more panel DIN space needed. I forgot, you have ps&b or something else with plenty 24V power headroom already in there?

Personally I'd got CAT6a + T&E to each fitting as it gives you future options, and every sparky carries infinite T&E and knows how to handle it. (E.g. My sparky complained anything smaller was too "snappy" when pulling through voids)

But if doing it yourself year 2 core 1.5mm will be a bit easier to work at each fitting.

 

 

[Thorfun]

1 minute ago, joth said:

What are your lighting requirements? To me basement with retractive switches sounds like basic GU10s would be fine... But it seems like RGBW is non negotiable?

If so yeah the Loxone offerings are going to give all the lighting you need without any more panel DIN space needed. I forgot, you have ps&b or something else with plenty 24V power headroom already in there?

Personally I'd got CAT6a + T&E to each fitting as it gives you future options, and every sparky carries infinite T&E and knows how to handle it. (E.g. My sparky complained anything smaller was too "snappy" when pulling through voids)

But if doing it yourself year 2 core 1.5mm will be a bit easier to work at each fitting.

 

 

different coloured lighting can affect people's emotions, e.g. blue to help focus, red to calm etc. so when recording being able to change the colour of light can help someone if they're struggling with getting something recorded. as such, I would like RGBW somewhere in there. LED strips would work but the lack of drivers/space in the cabinet precludes that unless I want to do a massive overhaul already and add a LXN-2 underneath the existing cab (which I don't!).

 

I have a PS&B and the current usage on most of the fuses is nowhere near the max so I can easily run some 24V spots. I also still have one fuse unused so have plenty of headroom there for me. which is why I thought the expensive Loxone tree RGBW spot route would just be easy for me as a quick solution.

 

I'm leaning towards the 2-core 1.5mm for ease of use again. the cost difference is negligible so it'll probably come down to my own laziness and an easy life will win over. it's just there's the voice at the back of my head going "what if you want to put 230V lights in there later and need an earth?". trying to run that later would be a pain! so maybe I do just run normal T&E.

 

have you used the Loxone RGBW spots? wondering if their claims for the smooth dimming are true. also I found some posts on the Loxone forum that mentions the spots WW were only 38° spread and not very bright, but I think they were the Gen1 spots and someone else responded with that wasn't their experience! so, again, just looking if anyone has used them and can give a review.

 

[joth]

If you'd rather LED strip have a look at the dimmer compact

https://shop.loxone.com/enuk/rgbw-24v-compact-dimmer-tree.html

(Or Air)

They're electrically identical to the din rail variant but skinny enough to post through a down light cut out or similar so you can dot them around near the strip. But being low voltage input you still need to run chunky cable to them to avoid voltage drop.

 

I've only briefly used the Loxone spots during their training, not enough to get an opinion on their effectiveness in domestic setting. But their office is done with them pretty much exclusively and seemed okay enough (I was only there in daylight and using office like moods really).

 

 

[Thorfun]

12 minutes ago, joth said:

If you'd rather LED strip have a look at the dimmer compact

https://shop.loxone.com/enuk/rgbw-24v-compact-dimmer-tree.html

(Or Air)

They're electrically identical to the din rail variant but skinny enough to post through a down light cut out or similar so you can dot them around near the strip. But being low voltage input you still need to run chunky cable to them to avoid voltage drop.

 

I've only briefly used the Loxone spots during their training, not enough to get an opinion on their effectiveness in domestic setting. But their office is done with them pretty much exclusively and seemed okay enough (I was only there in daylight and using office like moods really).

 

 

damn! something else to consider! 🤣

 

was just discussing it with swmbo (well not so much discussing more using her as a sounding board) and I realised that I am having some 230V wall sconces for additional lighting so I might as well just run T&E for the power requirements and a single Cat6A cable for the control requirements. so will only be 3 cables which isn't too onerous.

 

now you've thrown a spanner in the works with the dimmer compact I'll have another think about the lighting design.

[joth]

41 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

I might as well just run T&E for the power requirements and a single Cat6A cable for the control requirements. so will only be 3 cables which isn't too onerous.

Ok but some T&E will be switched mains circuits and other have 24V permanent power so the only saving is needing a single cable drum for them both. You still need to manage the topology in a way that makes sense per fitting. 

Put another way: I don't know of any Loxone tree lighting devices that can run straight of mains. Unlike say DALI RGBW drivers which typically do. 

[Thorfun]

40 minutes ago, joth said:

Ok but some T&E will be switched mains circuits and other have 24V permanent power so the only saving is needing a single cable drum for them both. You still need to manage the topology in a way that makes sense per fitting. 

Put another way: I don't know of any Loxone tree lighting devices that can run straight of mains. Unlike say DALI RGBW drivers which typically do. 

yeah. sorry. i don't think i explained myself very well!

 

1 x 1.5mm T&E cable for the 230V lights going to a spare relay completely separate from the 24V/tree stuff

1 x 1.5mm T&E cable from my Wago terminal blocks 24V block to the 24V on the Loxone tree spots

1 x Cat6A cable with green/green&white to the tree of the spots and a.n.other pair to the retractive switches with the orange/orange&white going to the 24V of the retractive switches or presence sensors etc.

 

make sense? or am i talking rubbish as usual? 🤣

[Dan F]

5 hours ago, Thorfun said:

I'm leaning towards the 2-core 1.5mm for ease of use again.

We used 5-core in most places for lighting unless we knew that the lighting circuit was definitely going to be i) single-color ii) use a cabinet-based dimmer.  Wtih 5-cores we could then:
- power RGBW or tunable strips from with central LED driver,

- send 230v + DALI to remote drivers (all our downlights and some other fittings are DALI)
- send dimmed 230v
- could even send 24v + loxone tree if needed. (albeit overkill core area)