Pocster Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) Hey all, Been looking into these macerating pumps. On the saniflo website it suggests placing the unit behind a finished wall (say directly behind the WC). As these are sealed units non serviceable is this wise?. If it fails it's not just removal of the toilet but knocking a hole in your wall to get at the unit and replace. Cheers Edited June 22, 2017 by pocster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 I am not sure. Necessary evils to be used only when necessary imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 They are not sealed units and you have to get them to service them. The saniflo website shows them behind a panel. ... and there are better units from other providers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted June 22, 2017 Author Share Posted June 22, 2017 16 minutes ago, PeterW said: They are not sealed units and you have to get them to service them. The saniflo website shows them behind a panel. ... and there are better units from other providers.... They require regular servicing? or just when faulty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 I would rather just sell up and move than have one. If you have a basement, look at a small pump station which can handle solids. Quieter and more reliable, but need to be sunk down. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 1 hour ago, pocster said: They require regular servicing? or just when faulty? Potentially both. Some of the newer ones are much better at handling "hard" items and they do have their place although it would not be choice for a main bathroom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted June 22, 2017 Author Share Posted June 22, 2017 I am planning it for an ensuite I assume I'd have to raise the shower tray in order to get a fall into the unit ? really did want a shower tray flush and embedded in the floor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) Can you put the unit in the room below then you can sink the tray down. Edited June 22, 2017 by MikeSharp01 Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 2 hours ago, pocster said: I am planning it for an ensuite I assume I'd have to raise the shower tray in order to get a fall into the unit ? really did want a shower tray flush and embedded in the floor No - some have a low level input for showers so it can stand on the same floor level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted June 23, 2017 Author Share Posted June 23, 2017 Well as I need to add insulation , UFH and then screen I assume the tray waste won't be an issue. I could also make sure that the macerator sits on the beam and block i.e. not on the finished screed floor When these things pump vertically I *assume* I should install a non return valve near the unit? i.e. so in the event of failure and pipe disconnection I don't get sewage all over the ensuite floor!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 No they need the pipework as per the instructions - followed to the letter ..!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbouk Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Sell the project, take the loss. It is probably a better option. They really are last resort, they will fail, there is another make with a much better reputation, sorry my memory fails me.... I really would not put one behind any plasterwork, or inaccessible, also be very carefully what you pour down the plug hole into it. Our existing kitchen is lower than the external drains, so we have a sanitive. As you can probably tell I'm not a fan.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 2 hours ago, Jimbouk said: Sell the project, take the loss. It is probably a better option. They really are last resort, they will fail, there is another make with a much better reputation, sorry my memory fails me.... I really would not put one behind any plasterwork, or inaccessible, also be very carefully what you pour down the plug hole into it. Our existing kitchen is lower than the external drains, so we have a sanitive. As you can probably tell I'm not a fan.... I'd rather ? in a bucket and throw it out the window. Work of the devil. Yes they're servicable, plenty of people ring and ask me to fix them...............I tell them to FO. My reply is "replace or nothing" as its always the impellers blocked or the capacitor for the motor ( which are immersed in the worst milkshake you'll ever see ). I'm shaking my head as I'm typing....yuk. On 22 June 2017 at 14:18, pocster said: I am planning it for an ensuite I assume I'd have to raise the shower tray in order to get a fall into the unit ? really did want a shower tray flush and embedded in the floor The tray can't go flush as the sani-shat inlet is at the bottom of the unit and you cannot have waste runs going uphill. So elevated tray or nowt sorry. Can't you get a soil pipe in here somehow? ANYhow ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 On 22/06/2017 at 14:11, PeterW said: Potentially both. Some of the newer ones are much better at handling "hard" items and they do have their place although it would not be choice for a main bathroom Hard items? Do you have an insufficient curry budget? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, pocster said: Well as I need to add insulation , UFH and then screen I assume the tray waste won't be an issue. I could also make sure that the macerator sits on the beam and block i.e. not on the finished screed floor When these things pump vertically I *assume* I should install a non return valve near the unit? i.e. so in the event of failure and pipe disconnection I don't get sewage all over the ensuite floor!!! Access and maintainibility need to be *major* priorities with these buggers. I only have one and that was installed by a tenant in our shop basement without our knowledge sometime within the last but one decade. We have always successfully maintained that it is a T responsibility so far ! F Edited June 23, 2017 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 I fitted one for a friend of my wife's parents. Ensuite added to the master bedroom for accessibility ( night loo visit instead of the far away downstairs bathroom ). Installed as the budget wasn't there to tap into the sewerage, against my advice and will. I made the ensuite out of stud frame and decided the best of this evil was to mount the unit backing onto the bedroom, boxed within the wall so the Sani-shat was out of view from inside the ensuite, and out of sight from the bedroom. The idea was that if the unit failed / other, you could get at and remove the unit via the removable panel I created, thus leaving the bathroom and WC in place and unnafected. A new ( replacment ) unit could then be fitted in its place within about 30 mins start to finish. That was taking the WC, basin and an elevated shower tray. Still working but I told them "#1's only if you want an easy life, #2 goes downstairs" and I also said don't ask me to EVER fix it, it'll only ever be slung and a new one fitted. Until they agreed that I wouldn't fit it. Just waiting for the ? to hit the fan, only a matter of time tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Stuart Turner ones are probably better as they have been properly engineered. But as @Nickfromwales says they are a last resort... Turd gobbling sh!t pump... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 Here we go.... The rear access was big enough to get the unit out without disturbing the bathroom, and a boxing around the bit of the unit sticking out into the room made it 'invisible'. Boxed and tile skirted to match what you see there. Just looking at the date makes me realise I've fitted ( under duress ) probably two or three of these in the last 20 years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted June 24, 2017 Author Share Posted June 24, 2017 (edited) LOL! I get the impression we aren't fans of these. What fall over distance must a standard toilet waste run have?. I got to cross the width of the house around 7m to reach the drain. Would also require drilling through a 1 foot thick reinforced concrete wall - guess a diamond cutter would be needed. BUT!; below ground for a WC I have no option but a sani - shite (as you call them ) - but why no non return value on the output? Fully appreciate when it busts to just replace it! - not interested in attempting a repair Cheers Edited June 24, 2017 by pocster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 (edited) Can you put the loo on a pedestal to gain the necessary fall? 'Odium on the Podium'. Edited June 24, 2017 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted June 24, 2017 Author Share Posted June 24, 2017 53 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: Can you put the loo on a pedestal to gain the necessary fall? 'Odium on the Podium'. Possibly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 11 hours ago, pocster said: - but why no non return value on the output? Sorry, forgot to discuss this. They come with an integral heavy rubber 'crap-flap' on the outlet as standard. No other type of NRV would do as the sweetcorn launcher would block them. Consideration must be given to the ongoing discharge pipework as certain runs require an air admittance valve to be fitted mid point to alleviate any possible siphoning issues. Upsizing the pipework will negate this, which is what I did each time. I didn't like the idea of an AAV getting contaminated, then jamming in the part open position and then the turd tornado crop-spraying out of it ( as they pump at around 10bar iirc ). Edit : 10psi . My bad. Linky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Just to chuck in my three ha'pence worth, they are NOISY. We stayed in a holiday let some years ago that had one of these, and the noise if someone went to the loo in the middle of the night was enough to wake the dead. The pump seemed to start from some sort of level switch, and the one in the holiday let would give a short couple of bursts even if the loo wasn't flushed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 1 hour ago, JSHarris said: The pump seemed to start from some sort of level switch, and the one in the holiday let would give a short couple of bursts even if the loo wasn't flushed. That's usually a part blocked NRV ( rubber crap flap ) and the residual fluid that's been pumped away ( still sat in the outlet pipe as the unit doesn't pump that pipe clear, it only pumps the unit out into it ) is able to slowly seep back into the machine, back-filling the unit and raising the level switch causing the unit to bail out again. Another inevitable annoyance associated with one of these things. 20 hours ago, pocster said: BUT!; below ground for a WC I have no option but a sani - shite (as you call them ) - but why no non return value on the output? How far below ground ? Basement ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted June 25, 2017 Author Share Posted June 25, 2017 10 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: Sorry, forgot to discuss this. They come with an integral heavy rubber 'crap-flap' on the outlet as standard. No other type of NRV would do as the sweetcorn launcher would block them. Consideration must be given to the ongoing discharge pipework as certain runs require an air admittance valve to be fitted mid point to alleviate any possible siphoning issues. Upsizing the pipework will negate this, which is what I did each time. I didn't like the idea of an AAV getting contaminated, then jamming in the part open position and then the turd tornado crop-spraying out of it ( as they pump at around 10bar iirc ). Edit : 10psi . My bad. Linky Hmmm, that cat flap does sound crap (no pun intended) could I not simply add a non return valve to the discharge pipe just for peace of mind? 2 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: That's usually a part blocked NRV ( rubber crap flap ) and the residual fluid that's been pumped away ( still sat in the outlet pipe as the unit doesn't pump that pipe clear, it only pumps the unit out into it ) is able to slowly seep back into the machine, back-filling the unit and raising the level switch causing the unit to bail out again. Another inevitable annoyance associated with one of these things. How far below ground ? Basement ? Yep basement (this is a separate WC); so no choice here. The ensuite I'm thinking about is at ground level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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