Ring nails or screws (or both?) ??

[Thorfun]

I am adding 2" x 2" battens across a vaulted ceiling to 'box in' the steel as shown in the photos below:

 

 

 

I will be attaching 100mm PIR below these battens and then AVCL, service cavity and plasterboard. I will also be filling the void above the battens with off-cuts of mineral wool, so there will be quite a weight down on them.

 

so, will ring nails be strong enough or should I screw the battens? or should I just belt and braces it and do both?

[Thorfun]

or is there a better way to fix these battens that will be stronger?

[Conor]

How we did it: 4x2 timbers rather than 2x2 and fixed in with angled nails at either side of the timber, so 2 nails forming an X at each end. Think they were 75mm nails from a framing nailer.

[Thorfun]

10 minutes ago, Conor said:

How we did it: 4x2 timbers rather than 2x2 and fixed in with angled nails at either side of the timber, so 2 nails forming an X at each end. Think they were 75mm nails from a framing nailer.

cheers. was hoping to not have to purchase more timber! got a load of 2x2 left over from the cladding battening. 

 

if folk on here say that 2x2 isn't enough then I'll get some 4x2. 

 

how about 2x2 with nails, screws AND some of these https://www.toolstation.com/tooth-plate-connector/p44246?

[Carrerahill]

38 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

I am adding 2" x 2" battens across a vaulted ceiling to 'box in' the steel as shown in the photos below:

 

 

 

I will be attaching 100mm PIR below these battens and then AVCL, service cavity and plasterboard. I will also be filling the void above the battens with off-cuts of mineral wool, so there will be quite a weight down on them.

 

so, will ring nails be strong enough or should I screw the battens? or should I just belt and braces it and do both?

Nailed at the ends and angle nailed into the central timber that is going nowhere and over such short spans will be strong enough. 

 

If you angle nail the middle both from the outside aimed towards each other that will form a very strong fixing because it is not just a straight pull out. 

 

1 ring nail each side, set properly, you could swing off it (do a swing test on each) add in the centre nails and another at each end, that thing is solid. 

 

I've build a lot in my time at a self-build level, I have also demolished and done a lot of down takings in my time and sometimes a single nail can be enough to become a real problem, do no underestimate a good nailed connection. 

[Thorfun]

10 minutes ago, Carrerahill said:

Nailed at the ends and angle nailed into the central timber that is going nowhere and over such short spans will be strong enough. 

 

If you angle nail the middle both from the outside aimed towards each other that will form a very strong fixing because it is not just a straight pull out. 

 

1 ring nail each side, set properly, you could swing off it (do a swing test on each) add in the centre nails and another at each end, that thing is solid. 

 

I've build a lot in my time at a self-build level, I have also demolished and done a lot of down takings in my time and sometimes a single nail can be enough to become a real problem, do no underestimate a good nailed connection. 

thanks. will do just that and then will probably add another nail or two for good luck. 🙂 

 

I was thinking of swinging off each one but it's about 3.5m to the ground so quite a long way down!

[Carrerahill]

54 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

 

 

On a side note, that all looks very neat and well done. People often treat framing as rough, there is no need for it to be rough. 

[Carrerahill]

2 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

thanks. will do just that and then will probably add another nail or two for good luck. 🙂 

 

I was thinking of swinging off each one but it's about 3.5m to the ground so quite a long way down!

Ah, that image is rather deceptive, I assumed that was a loft space or something! Yes no swinging from it then!

 

In fairness, if you give it a good wiggle you will know. A little scootch of glue between the timbers in the middle might not be a bad idea to give you belts and braces and cheap solution for a few dabs. 

Edited August 12, 2022 by Carrerahill

[Thorfun]

3 minutes ago, Carrerahill said:

On a side note, that all looks very neat and well done. People often treat framing as rough, there is no need for it to be rough. 

 

thanks. the angle cuts are a bit of a pain as it's 55° and I've not got a chop saw that does those angles, so I'm measuring and cutting with a circular saw. it's not perfect but it's pretty darn close!

 

2 minutes ago, Carrerahill said:

A little scootch of glue between the timbers in the middle might not be a bad idea to give you belts and braces and cheap solution for a few dabs. 

 

that's a good idea. I just happen to have a bottle of Gorilla wood glue lying around waiting to be used. 🙂 

[markc]

If it’s 55 degrees, cut an angled packet to rotate the piece off the back fence then 45degrees is more than enough (assuming tapered pack is at least 10 degree).

[Thorfun]

1 minute ago, markc said:

If it’s 55 degrees, cut an angled packet to rotate the piece off the back fence then 45degrees is more than enough (assuming tapered pack is at least 10 degree).

I think I know what you mean and I tried something like that and managed to cut one end at 55° but then couldn't do the other end as I'd have to cut to length and then cut the angle as the wood wouldn't feed through to the other end.

 

the skill saw is a pain but it's working so will do for now.

[markc]

yes, you cut one end, mark long point for length, cut at 45 degrees (no packer), then put packer in and cut correct angle keeping same point to point length.

hmmm, italics 😮

[Mr Punter]

If it were me I would make the 2 x 2s a bit longer and nail them into the sides of the rafters.

[Thorfun]

4 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

If it were me I would make the 2 x 2s a bit longer and nail them into the sides of the rafters.

that's actually a very good idea! where were you when I started the job this morning. 😂

 

would save me doing 55° cuts. but would mean I'd have to cut the insulation around the pieces.

[Mr Punter]

Just now, Thorfun said:

but would mean I'd have to cut the insulation around the pieces

 

I thought it was flexi insulation?

[Thorfun]

Just now, Mr Punter said:

 

I thought it was flexi insulation?

yeah, it is, but it's not THAT flexible. anyway, I was just being silly, it's trivial to cut a chunk out of the mineral to allow the timbers through. just wish I'd thought of it myself before I started.

[JohnMo]

This how I did mine. Nail into the side of the rafter, so the nails have to shear, rather than just fall out.  The center section were skewed nails.

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

7 hours ago, Thorfun said:

 

I was thinking of swinging off each one but it's about 3.5m to the ground so quite a long way down!

Less gin, more tonic  

The 2x2 is ample, relax.

 

5 hours ago, Mr Punter said:

If it were me I would make the 2 x 2s a bit longer and nail them into the sides of the rafters.

This is exactly how most do it. Words from the wise