EV Charging Regulations

[Gone West]

It looks like, as from today, you will not be allowed to fit a dumb EV charger. You have to fit a smart charger with a data connection to discourage some daytime charging.

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1078138/Guide-to-evscp-regulations-2021-V2.1.pdf

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/regulations-electric-vehicle-smart-charge-points

 

 

[MikeSharp01]

This was always going to be a challenge but I wonder how this fits with self generated power you may want to put into your EV during the summer days!

[SteamyTea]

So you drive from your flat to your workplace, and find that because demand is high, you cannot charge up at work.

 

Won't this just drive (pun intended) an amateur to make their own.

[Nickfromwales]

5 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

So you drive from your flat to your workplace, and find that because demand is high, you cannot charge up at work.

 

Won't this just drive (pun intended) an armature to make their own.

Prob best edit that. Makes you look like a real armature. 😂. 

[MikeSharp01]

Interesting read, raises so many interesting questions, but in the end just another parasitic load, still I guess you can turn it off.

 

2 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

So you drive from your flat to your workplace, and find that because demand is high, you cannot charge up at work.

Interesting point.

 

My Questions / issues:

1. See above - how does it deal with self generated power.
2. I see no provision for V-L in this scheme as defined.
3. I assume your EV will still have a 13A charge lead you can use to top up where you like - have I got that wrong.
4. It can stop me charging but it looks like I can over ride it if I wish - seems daft it either is, or is not, a control.
5. Not sure I like the DSR / ToU agreement idea but I guess many already have that.
6. Thin end of the DSR wedge or what as this technology will soon be inside our homes controlling all our consumption. 

[SteamyTea]

1 minute ago, Nickfromwales said:

armature

I am sure there is one in there somewhere.

 

(expletive deleted)ing autocorrect.

[MikeSharp01]

Looks like 'autocorrect' has already worked.

[Carrerahill]

21 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

This was always going to be a challenge but I wonder how this fits with self generated power you may want to put into your EV during the summer days!

You can disable it. They just need to come, "out of the box" that they limit load at peak times.

 

This is the beginning of the problems of the electric future rearing there ugly heads. 

 

 

[SteamyTea]

1 minute ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Thin end of the DSR wedge or what as this technology will soon be inside our homes controlling all our consumption. 

Yes, one of the criticism of smart meters.

 

I suspect, in reality, when we are all BEV, the vast majority of people will fast charge at public charging points.

 

[Nickfromwales]

Ok, so, after some recent talks with my PV / battery / EV charger partner I asked the question. It is still not quite ‘common knowledge’ but I am led to believe that the chargers would have a gun and CT clamp to switch into eco ( aka trickle charge ) mode when it sees export. Other than that, it would simply be told not to hammer you with ultra high cost electricity. 
Most should be charging overnight or topping up with “non-domestic” chargers (?) so this is a relatively manageable “problem” afaic.

I very much doubt that EV charger manufacturers would alienate self generators tbh. 

Edited June 30, 2022 by Nickfromwales

[MikeSharp01]

1 minute ago, SteamyTea said:

I suspect, in reality, when we are all BEV, the vast majority of people will fast charge at public charging points.

Perhaps - given prices for installed charge points come in around £1-2K here. Still doe not answer the self generated power issue or the V-L (Vehicle to Load) options coming down the track.

[Carrerahill]

Alternative is to do as a neighbour of mine did, on my advice, he built an EV charger for about, £180 I think it was, including the charge cable & plug. 

[SteamyTea]

1 minute ago, Carrerahill said:

This is the beginning of the problems of the electric future rearing there ugly heads. 

When ICE cars started, one sent the Butler to the chemist to get a can of gasoline.

It is really early days in this journey, and by highlighting the problems now, there is more chance that it will be done right.

[Nickfromwales]

1 minute ago, Carrerahill said:

You can disable it. They just need to come, "out of the box" that they limit load at peak times.

 

This is the beginning of the problems of the electric future rearing there ugly heads. 

 

 

With a heck of a lot more to come.

Ultimately my recent 100% uplift of my standing charge will very likely go up by 100% again to further compensate for the grotesque amounts of public-generated revenue that shareholders have greedily siphoned off as income. 
 

Now that pot is running dry it comes out of our pockets again for the HUGE grid fortifications / improvements that are required for this mystical electric future. Privatisation at its (expletive deleted)ing finest. Ffs.

[Carrerahill]

1 minute ago, SteamyTea said:

When ICE cars started, one sent the Butler to the chemist to get a can of gasoline.

It is really early days in this journey, and by highlighting the problems now, there is more chance that it will be done right.

But that problem only impacted the motorist (and his Butler), EV's will impact everyone, driver or not, because of their demand on the electricity network. We have been sitting on the knife edge of being able to keep the lights on or not. The tipping point is here.

 

This whole thing is driving me to an autonomous system using PV. 

[SteamyTea]

3 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

grotesque amounts of public-generated revenue that shareholders have greedily siphoned off as income. 

Interesting point.

 

Say there are 30 million houses in the UK, and they each use around 3 MWh a year.

With VAT at 5% on domestic energy, that is £42/house.year.

So the treasury is taking £1.26 bn a year.  Are the greedy shareholders getting this much?

[SteamyTea]

1 minute ago, Carrerahill said:

The tipping point is here.

I did a bit about this a few years ago on DriveTribe.

We have (well had then) enough spare capacity, without doing anything at all i.e just plug those BEVs in when you feel like it, to charge 3.5 million vehicles.

Switch that to night usage and it was 7.5 million.

There is currently less that 0.5 million pure BEVs on the UK roads.

So till plenty of headroom.

 

The biggest problem is the governments fixation with nuclear power, which takes 25 years to build.

[Nickfromwales]

17 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Interesting point.

 

Say there are 30 million houses in the UK, and they each use around 3 MWh a year.

With VAT at 5% on domestic energy, that is £42/house.year.

So the treasury is taking £1.26 bn a year.  Are the greedy shareholders getting this much?

Agreed. Which is why the issue compounds / we suffer further from these laminations.

One is fixed ( death and taxes blah,blah, blah ), the other needs scrutiny.

Elitism is paid for “somehow”……

[MikeSharp01]

18 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

So the treasury is taking £1.26 bn a year.  Are the greedy shareholders getting this much?

And some: (Just three of them)

 

SSE market Cap £17.54b dividend earning 5.21% = £0.91bn to shareholders.

EDF market Cap £30.00b dividend earning 7.17% = £2.15bn to shareholders.

EON market Cap £21.43b dividend earning 4.93% = £1.05bn to shareholders.

 

 

[SteamyTea]

2 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

And some: (Just three of them)

Interesting.

I assume that tax is paid on that, so may be equal to just what domestic customers pay.

 

Taking just EDF because I am with them, is that the UK side or the whole group, which is, in effect, a nationalised company.

[MikeSharp01]

9 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Taking just EDF because I am with them, is that the UK side or the whole group, which is, in effect, a nationalised company.

That's the whole group, as is EON they don't split out their UK trading, so it will be a % of the above. SSE is wholly UK and if I had time I could have looked at Scottish Power and British Gas to see whats what. Interestingly I looked at Octapus - that is a private company but its latest accounts show losses as a group (they trade all over the planet and there are perhaps 30 companies in the group) but they are growing very fast. They also have what looks like a small set of directors that look after everything and look to be the owners of most of the shares but that is also somewhat obfuscated by the number of share classes they have so hard to get any details but it is clear that they have a very engaged staff base (with share options - not sure which class) and their founder is leading strongly.  

[MikeSharp01]

18 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

I assume that tax is paid on that

Yes unless they are using something like the trust approach which would allow dividends to be taken before tax. If a company is listed / embodied outside the UK it probably won't pay much tax in the UK, all companies of the size above will have  a 'tax strategy statement' somewhere that will set out what they do but these are generally quite vanlilla and careful management of crystallisations usually means that the local business does not make a, or much of a, profit even if the group as a whole does. You will have seen this in the case of Google and Amazon which even HMG feels might somewhat be outside a reasonable envelope.   

[Adam2]

Wow, am pleased my £250 EV charger was bought a week ago and installed before this! In a new build it costs very little over the cost of the kit to have an EV charger fitted yet my electrician tells me of sites where he's out doing the prep and customers are paying 700-1000 for a simple  EV charge point from a "specialist"! The smoke and mirrors needs to stop with this. At the moment it seems you can override the system to charge when you need but that may not always be the case!

 

Appreciate the need to balance supply - I'll most likely use an off peak night tarriff after I work out out usage patterns, would seem a sensible choice for many (doubt our planned 4kW solar will do a whole lot for a large EV battery).

[Marvin]

On 30/06/2022 at 08:57, MikeSharp01 said:

This was always going to be a challenge but I wonder how this fits with self generated power you may want to put into your EV during the summer days!

We would go off grid with that as we charge at 3kWp