MCS, Battery Storage and FIT

[MeMyselfandI]

Hi, does anyone know (for certain) whether retro-fitting battery storage (AC coupled) to an existing Solar PV Installation that benefits from the old FIT requires the installer of the battery to be MCS Certified so as not to compromise the FIT payments? ...or can anyone point me to where it is confirmed either way? 

[SteamyTea]

We have another thread on this very topic.  Try a search for it.

 

Good name, title of a song.

[MeMyselfandI]

Thanks @SteamyTea I have searched and read similar(ish) posts, but none answer the simple question of, does the battery installer need to be MCS Certified to ensure my FIT payments are not compromised, or is the battery considered something totally separate from the PV generation side?  Is there a post that discusses this that I am missing?

[Dillsue]

As I understand things any alterations on the inverter side of the generation meter are alterations to the FIT accreditted system and risk loosing FIT payments.  Any alterations to the consumer unit side of the generation meter and thats part of the house electrics which is nowt to do with the FIT accreditted system.

[TonyT]

Add more PV and another inverter independent of the original FIT install.

[Christiano]

We have 2015 FIT, the generation goes via a meter into the consumer unit.

We added a battery, have no idea of the MCS status of the installer, it has its own inverter and goes to a separate breaker, interfering in no way with the PV generation/metering.

 

I am not concerned in even the tiniest bit that the battery may affect our FIT.

[DamonHD]

You are meant to talk to your FiT administration before installing storage, eg to confirm whether you intend to allow exports from storage to the grid.

 

Rgds

 

Damon

[MeMyselfandI]

Thanks Damon, that's not what our FIT contract states (Npower now Eon). The only reference to notifying them is if we change the capacity. (We would still be exporting any energy we didn't use, just trying to make use of more of the energy we are generating)

[MeMyselfandI]

On 15/04/2022 at 19:52, Dillsue said:

As I understand things any alterations on the inverter side of the generation meter are alterations to the FIT accreditted system and risk loosing FIT payments.  Any alterations to the consumer unit side of the generation meter and thats part of the house electrics which is nowt to do with the FIT accreditted system.

Thanks dillsue, being a/c coupled, am i right in thinking this means the  battery is all installed on the house side of the meter?

[MeMyselfandI]

18 hours ago, DamonHD said:

You are meant to talk to your FiT administration before installing storage, eg to confirm whether you intend to allow exports from storage to the grid.

 

Rgds

 

Damon

Thanks Damon, that's not what our FIT contract states (Npower now Eon). The only reference to notifying them is if we change the capacity. (We would still be exporting any energy we didn't use, just trying to make use of more of the energy we are generating)

[Nickfromwales]

19 hours ago, DamonHD said:

You are meant to talk to your FiT administration before installing storage, eg to confirm whether you intend to allow exports from storage to the grid.

 

Rgds

 

Damon

Isn’t that only if it runs through the gen / export meter? I’ve a friend who has added panels and battery storage to a FiT’s install, but that element is 100% unaffected by the addition of batteries as the charge is captured and sent into a 3rd party BMS and goes around the existing and into its own MCB, thus only ‘preventing’ import.

 

1 hour ago, MeMyselfandI said:

Thanks Damon, that's not what our FIT contract states (Npower now Eon). The only reference to notifying them is if we change the capacity. (We would still be exporting any energy we didn't use, just trying to make use of more of the energy we are generating)

Yup. Spot on. You can change failed equipment but needs to be like for like, eg you can’t have a failed 250w module replaced with a 365w etc.

 

1 hour ago, MeMyselfandI said:

Thanks dillsue, being a/c coupled, am i right in thinking this means the  battery is all installed on the house side of the meter?

You can add a BMS and put the batteries onto the DC side, and put 48kWh without issue. The BMS can be dialled down to zero export, and you can G100 and declare, with the DNO often either then asking for equipment details and usually a witness visit to observe the zero export in operation.

[joth]

40 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Isn’t that only if it runs through the gen / export meter? I’ve a friend who has added panels and battery storage to a FiT’s install, but that element is 100% unaffected by the addition of batteries as the charge is captured and sent into a 3rd party BMS and goes around the existing and into its own MCB, thus only ‘preventing’ import.

AIUI it depends on the FiT. Most had "deemed export" of 50% of generation, and didn't have an export meter installed. On these so long as the battery is outside of the generation meter there's no way for FiT to be impacted.

 

But those with metered export could easily be impacted.

 

I'd imagine the catch all advice is ask the FiT provider to confirm.

[Dillsue]

1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

I’ve a friend who has added panels and battery storage to a FiT’s install,

Adding panels to a FIT accreditted install almost certainly increases the Total Installed Capacity so would need FIT payer approval and MCS install. If its a separate system within the house, then fill your boots, with DNO approval if needed.

[RobLe]

In the case of an old exiting FIT system, with an added battery - a friend of mine has had another company propose replacing the existing working inverter with a hybrid inverter + batteries.  I assume they propose this as the install is simpler, but they touted it as better for him as his old inverter was ‘nearing it’s end of life’ - I say tosh to that btw, electronic wear out is not accurately calculable for an individual install.  This solution could be used for timeshifting and so ok - but surely the battery could be charged by the grid too, via the meter in reverse, then back to grid.  It all seems very dodgy to me that, the simple FIT meter wouldn’t calculate (power in) - (power out) but instead just tot up the output ignoring the input.  I don’t think the company that suggested it knows all the facts, nor would it clean up the bureaucratic mess it had made.

[MeMyselfandI]

THANKS EVERYONE.  All sorted now.  I have had confirmation from my energy supplier (Eon in this case), that the battery can be added by a non-MCS certified installer.  (I understand a lot of MCS Certified installers have let their certification lapse after the FIT scheme ended - may or may not be true).  Eon did suggest I get a schematic layout provided by the installer, which has been requested and no problem for them to include it.  The reason for the schematic, (not needed at this stage for the FIT scheme), is that when my 25 years of FIT comes to an end, and I migrate onto a SEG export tariff, or whatever replaces it, a schematic is required as part of the application. 

Edited April 19, 2022 by MeMyselfandI
reworded for clarity

[Ferdinand]

On 19/04/2022 at 17:41, MeMyselfandI said:

THANKS EVERYONE.  All sorted now.  I have had confirmation from my energy supplier (Eon in this case), that the battery can be added by a non-MCS certified installer.  (I understand a lot of MCS Certified installers have let their certification lapse after the FIT scheme ended - may or may not be true).  Eon did suggest I get a schematic layout provided by the installer, which has been requested and no problem for them to include it.  The reason for the schematic, (not needed at this stage for the FIT scheme), is that when my 25 years of FIT comes to an end, and I migrate onto a SEG export tariff, or whatever replaces it, a schematic is required as part of the application. 

 

My old installer closed down the solar side entirely, and now does scaffolding hire !