House design opinions

[ProDave]

12 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

the biggest thing that frustrates me about these 'off-the-shelf' products and also mass built houses is the fact that the 2nd and 3rd bedrooms are always different sizes! it's like I'd have to decide which kid I loved more and give them the biggest room.

 

the beauty of designing your own house, whatever route you'd choose to do that, is you have the flexibility to do what *you* want. one of the first things we said to our architect was we wanted the kids bedrooms to be the same size. why should one child lose out to the other one! 

Indeed and because we only have one kid, we designed the house with 2 big bedrooms one for the adults and one for the kid, with the third smaller room as a guest bedroom for visitors.

 

What I dislike about many of these off the shelf "Scottish" designs is they put at least one bedroom downstairs.  I would prefer not to have the vaulted living room in that design if it meant I could get all the bedrooms upstairs.  but that is a personal thing.

 

Re planning.  If it is anything like here, there is a general presumption against building in the open countryside.  The exceptions are in an existing settlement, infill between existing buildings and if the plot is existing garden ground.  I have known applications refused by being just a few metres outside the existing settlement.  Ours passed on both the infill between existing buildings and inside the existing settlement.  And once they have accepted you can build something, they generally will not allow full 2 story, it must have some element of room in roof.

[Amateur bob]

8 hours ago, Iceverge said:

 

Too many junctions and corners. Count the number of surfaces in a house. Each one will add ££. A simple rectangular footprint with a monopitch will have 6 sides, change to an apex roof and you have 7.  Our hipped roof farmhouse has 9.  I can't see the whole house you've proposed, How many does it have? 

 

 

Remember the timber frame cost doesn't reflect the extra cost of these. They just charge you for the sticks they nail together. Every valley and hip in the roof needs sealing, cutting tiles etc. All roof surfaces need their own guttering and downpipes.  If you want inspiration for the cheapest easiest houses to build look at the farm buildings about you. 

 

Alternatively get some cardboard and sticky tape and try to make some of the designs you've posted. Time yourself and measure the amount of waste material for this these two. 

 

 

 

 

 

Unless you provide more detail I'm afraid we're just throwing darts in the dark, no need to post anything that would identify you, but having no idea what you submitted or why it was refused I'm at a loss.  

 

If you would prefer not to do so a good professional is your other option.

 

 

 

Heres the previous application, although it was a box shape it did have a bit at the front which in theory wouldve increased the surface areas to 12 so mabye not so cheap afterall, how do the 2 designs compare in your view, this house has a internal floor area of 180m2 the new one is 190m2 but rooms in the roof

 

 

[Amateur bob]

4 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Indeed and because we only have one kid, we designed the house with 2 big bedrooms one for the adults and one for the kid, with the third smaller room as a guest bedroom for visitors.

 

What I dislike about many of these off the shelf "Scottish" designs is they put at least one bedroom downstairs.  I would prefer not to have the vaulted living room in that design if it meant I could get all the bedrooms upstairs.  but that is a personal thing.

 

Re planning.  If it is anything like here, there is a general presumption against building in the open countryside.  The exceptions are in an existing settlement, infill between existing buildings and if the plot is existing garden ground.  I have known applications refused by being just a few metres outside the existing settlement.  Ours passed on both the infill between existing buildings and inside the existing settlement.  And once they have accepted you can build something, they generally will not allow full 2 story, it must have some element of room in roof.

I personally dont mind the downstairs bedroom as i could use it as a tv room seperate from the living roof if others are watching kids stuff ive only 1 kid just now, im in the countryside but trying to get ag justification to overrule the lical development plan

[Thorfun]

13 minutes ago, Amateur bob said:

Yes i see what you mean, whats your thoughts on the design ive picked though in terms of cost efficiency and looks?

I'm no expert in cost efficiency as my spiralling build costs would attest to! and I don't like commenting on looks as it's such a subjective subject. so I'll leave those questions to others.

[ProDave]

3 minutes ago, Amateur bob said:

im in the countryside but trying to get ag justification to overrule the lical development plan

Perhaps you should put your efforts just now into getting Permission in Principle on the site which does not need a final house design, just a rough idea which you can draw yourself.  Only once you have that, go for full planning and see exactly what house design the planners will accept.

[Amateur bob]

3 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Perhaps you should put your efforts just now into getting Permission in Principle on the site which does not need a final house design, just a rough idea which you can draw yourself.  Only once you have that, go for full planning and see exactly what house design the planners will accept.

I was going to do a pre application with this design to see if the design in this location would be acceptef

[CharlieKLP]

38 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

the biggest thing that frustrates me about these 'off-the-shelf' products and also mass built houses is the fact that the 2nd and 3rd bedrooms are always different sizes! it's like I'd have to decide which kid I loved more and give them the biggest room.

 

the beauty of designing your own house, whatever route you'd choose to do that, is you have the flexibility to do what *you* want. one of the first things we said to our architect was we wanted the kids bedrooms to be the same size. why should one child lose out to the other one! 

Yeah exactly. And why self build and then pick a house designed for someone else? Very good point. They are good as a starting point if you’re a bit lost, but that’s it. 
 

looking at the one you chose @Amateur bob, I think it’s quite cool but the weird thing about it is you need to go up and down some stairs to go from the hall to the living area! I think that’s quirky but it would annoy me if I’m honest. Although, good for getting your 5000 steps in. 

[Indy]

1 hour ago, Thorfun said:

the biggest thing that frustrates me about these 'off-the-shelf' products and also mass built houses is the fact that the 2nd and 3rd bedrooms are always different sizes! it's like I'd have to decide which kid I loved more and give them the biggest room.

 

the beauty of designing your own house, whatever route you'd choose to do that, is you have the flexibility to do what *you* want. one of the first things we said to our architect was we wanted the kids bedrooms to be the same size. why should one child lose out to the other one! 

 

This. A million times this.

 

If I was to pick only 1 reason to go down the route of building our house from scratch versus a refurb or buying a pre-built house - it's exactly what you've described below. There's usually a very clear decrease in room sizes as you go from Master Bedroom to Bedroom 2, then Bedroom 3 and beyond. I don't think I've EVER seen a house which had been designed with 2 kids in mind (i.e. identically sized bedrooms) unless you go into the super luxury homes upwards of £2m or so.

 

It was also the 1st and most important instruction I gave my architects, to have them matching in size to the millimetre!

[ProDave]

1 hour ago, Amateur bob said:

I was going to do a pre application with this design to see if the design in this location would be acceptef

That's putting the cart before the horse.  Establish the principle of being allowed to build a house first with PIP then sort out the details with the approval of reserved matters application.

[Bitpipe]

57 minutes ago, Indy said:

 

This. A million times this.

 

If I was to pick only 1 reason to go down the route of building our house from scratch versus a refurb or buying a pre-built house - it's exactly what you've described below. There's usually a very clear decrease in room sizes as you go from Master Bedroom to Bedroom 2, then Bedroom 3 and beyond. I don't think I've EVER seen a house which had been designed with 2 kids in mind (i.e. identically sized bedrooms) unless you go into the super luxury homes upwards of £2m or so.

 

It was also the 1st and most important instruction I gave my architects, to have them matching in size to the millimetre!

 

Yup. Our house is basically square so the four first floor bedrooms are identical in size. Ours has a dressing area and ensuite so feels bigger but I've never understood the need for a mega bedroom suite. Kids are the same and there's a guest room also.

 

The two rooms in roof are probably the biggest bedrooms in the house but neither used much really.

[Indy]

39 minutes ago, Bitpipe said:

 

Yup. Our house is basically square so the four first floor bedrooms are identical in size. Ours has a dressing area and ensuite so feels bigger but I've never understood the need for a mega bedroom suite. Kids are the same and there's a guest room also.

 

The two rooms in roof are probably the biggest bedrooms in the house but neither used much really.

 

I don't disagree with having a large master suite, and in fact - that's exactly what we've done. Ours stretches across the back of the house and we've managed to carve out an extra study/part of the snug on the 1st floor from the area. The 2 rooms in the front are then divided equally for the kids bedrooms.

 

And we only have a 1.75 storey house so the loft will not be high enough to convert to habitable space (1.8m at its highest point in the middle). One of the compromises we made as its replacing a bungalow and a 2 storey+loft house would have been quite a stretch (pun intended!)

[CharlieKLP]

2 hours ago, ProDave said:

That's putting the cart before the horse.  Establish the principle of being allowed to build a house first with PIP then sort out the details with the approval of reserved matters application.

if they have had two full applications rejected, the rejection would usually say if a house in this site would be acceptable or not already. It will be in the officer’s report. 

[Amateur bob]

3 hours ago, CharlieKLP said:

Yeah exactly. And why self build and then pick a house designed for someone else? Very good point. They are good as a starting point if you’re a bit lost, but that’s it. 
 

looking at the one you chose @Amateur bob, I think it’s quite cool but the weird thing about it is you need to go up and down some stairs to go from the hall to the living area! I think that’s quirky but it would annoy me if I’m honest. Although, good for getting your 5000 steps in. 

yes i see what your saying although you can also go from kitchen straight through to living room which is prob how i would enter it most times? do you think i should put some stone on one of the gable ends or do you think itll look ok just all in white render? thanks

[Amateur bob]

7 minutes ago, CharlieKLP said:

if they have had two full applications rejected, the rejection would usually say if a house in this site would be acceptable or not already. It will be in the officer’s report. 

im trying to compromise design as i dont want to change the site but will have to if pre app doesnt work

[CharlieKLP]

Just now, Amateur bob said:

im trying to compromise design as i dont want to change the site but will have to if pre app doesnt work

have they said the site is acceptable in your previous officers report? 
 

 

[Amateur bob]

5 minutes ago, CharlieKLP said:

have they said the site is acceptable in your previous officers report? 
 

 

they said the ag justification was no reason to overrule the local development plan as i hadnt proved other sites on the farm werent more suitable, i plan to address these points

[Amateur bob]

2 hours ago, ProDave said:

That's putting the cart before the horse.  Establish the principle of being allowed to build a house first with PIP then sort out the details with the approval of reserved matters application.

ive considered this but the pre app is what the head of planning advised this time around

[CharlieKLP]

I really think you need a planning consultant’s help with proving the other sites you own aren’t acceptable at a minimum.

 

There might be scope to do farmworker’s accommodation or even use some outbuildings to justify a dwelling that way.  There’s lots of things you could do other than just fire applications at the council. 
 

I think a pre-app is a waste of effort usually. 

Edited March 24, 2022 by CharlieKLP

[Amateur bob]

The proposal is contrary to Policy 1A, Placemaking, of the Perth and Kinross Local Development Plan 2 (2019) as due to its scale, siting and design the development would not contribute positively to the quality of the surrounding built and natural environment

 

this was one of the refusal reasons

[Amateur bob]

would some stone cladding on one of the gables of my new design make the house look less urban in appearance?