Meabh Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 We are now starting building warrants for our knock down rebuild on the East Coast of Scotland and need to decide what to build our house with... - We are building "fabric first" and working with a self build eco architect - We have 2 single story elements and 1 double story element - Our engineer has suggested a passive raft foundation (sandy soil plus fabric first) I always thought we'd use SIPS but quotes for superstructures are back and the ICF plus raft foundation is roughly the same price as SIPs without foundation!! Should we just go for the cheaper ICF route? Is there anything about it that would put you off using it? Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitpipe Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Twin wall timber frame with pumped cellulose insulation? Similar concept as SIPs but back when we built (2015/16) cheaper. We also considered ICF which many here have used and it lends itself to DIY also. No secret that we used MBC who can also do the passive insulated foundation slab (we had a basement so replicated the spec ourselves) so just one contractor to work with for the super structure. They guarantee the airtightness spec (provided you use appropriate windows & doors) and also include all floor decks, stud walls (not just the structural ones) etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 I would say it depends on how much of the build you are doing your self. I did a lot myself, so selected methods I could do and where required I could get support locally, based on normal practice. We are in NE Scotland, on a sand hill. We did strip foundation, insulated stub walls, 160mm reinforced concrete slab, infilled with 200mm PIR, 70mm PIR upstands, UFH pipes another 100mm concrete. Then Durisol ICF walls, as no specialist equipment needed to support during concrete pours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 24 minutes ago, Meabh said: Our engineer has suggested a passive raft foundation Hi. Well your engineer is starting the journey on the right foot(ing) there +1 for twin-wall timber frame. A large number of my clients have built with this system and I am seriously impressed with the performance, AND how quiet the house is, eg almost void of external influences. I would like to see anyone blindfolded who could tell me they were in a brick & block ( masonry ) / ICF / Twin-walled TF built dwelling as the twin-wall system is very very solid indeed. I recommend to all my clients that they install the posi-joists at 400mm centres and not at 600mm as per most knee-jerk designers like to install at. Even with BRegs levels of allowed deflection, 600mm centres is still too "bouncy" IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 35 minutes ago, Meabh said: We are now starting building warrants for our knock down rebuild on the East Coast of Scotland and need to decide what to build our house with... - We are building "fabric first" and working with a self build eco architect - We have 2 single story elements and 1 double story element - Our engineer has suggested a passive raft foundation (sandy soil plus fabric first) I always thought we'd use SIPS but quotes for superstructures are back and the ICF plus raft foundation is roughly the same price as SIPs without foundation!! Should we just go for the cheaper ICF route? Is there anything about it that would put you off using it? Many thanks lovely looking house! your black timber cladding.....what are you going for? we're having charred larch and has it delivered the last week. it looks stunning and we can't wait for it to be fitted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitpipe Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 22 minutes ago, Thorfun said: lovely looking house! your black timber cladding.....what are you going for? we're having charred larch and has it delivered the last week. it looks stunning and we can't wait for it to be fitted! Lovely. We need to replace our Parex render (MgO carrier board failed, not the Parex part) and are thinking of doing something completely different like dark vertical timber or equivalent composite. What is the per m2 cost of yours and is a regular joiner installing or a specialist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Meabh said: ... Should we just go for the cheaper ICF route? Is there anything about it that would put you off using it? .... Yes. Having to employ a builder who has never used the chosen ICF before. Or doing it yourself without close, and technically competent guidance. Attention to detail matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Bitpipe said: Lovely. We need to replace our Parex render (MgO carrier board failed, not the Parex part) and are thinking of doing something completely different like dark vertical timber or equivalent composite. What is the per m2 cost of yours and is a regular joiner installing or a specialist? just a regular joiner (he did a friends Larch cladding and comes highly recommended and I've seen his work first hand so I know he'll do a good job). we had a huge amount, 230m2, and so we managed to get wholesale price which came in around £65/m2. so it's not cheap when you compare it to standard larch but it is cheaper than Western Red Cedar! at the moment though there is a shortage of Siberian Larch so you might want to hold off for a bit. 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitpipe Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 54 minutes ago, Thorfun said: just a regular joiner (he did a friends Larch cladding and comes highly recommended and I've seen his work first hand so I know he'll do a good job). we had a huge amount, 230m2, and so we managed to get wholesale price which came in around £65/m2. so it's not cheap when you compare it to standard larch but it is cheaper than Western Red Cedar! at the moment though there is a shortage of Siberian Larch so you might want to hold off for a bit. 😉 Interesting - the composite board is only £16/m2 and I'd assume the cross batten material cost and overall labour cost would be equivalent (have you a grip on those yet?) By comparison my render cost is £70/m2 for batten + board and £78/m2 for the topcoat - all ex VAT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Bitpipe said: Interesting - the composite board is only £16/m2 and I'd assume the cross batten material cost and overall labour cost would be equivalent (have you a grip on those yet?) By comparison my render cost is £70/m2 for batten + board and £78/m2 for the topcoat - all ex VAT. our batten costs are high as we're having vertical cladding so need counter battens and they are 50mm x 50mm battens to allow room for the external blinds. all in all our timber cladding will be a very expensive item but it should be amazing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bitpipe said: Interesting - the composite board is only £16/m2 and I'd assume the cross batten material cost and overall labour cost would be equivalent (have you a grip on those yet?) By comparison my render cost is £70/m2 for batten + board and £78/m2 for the topcoat - all ex VAT. btw, we're also having areas of standard Siberian larch which came in at around £45/m2 for comparison. and the prices I've mentioned are not including labour Edited March 21, 2022 by Thorfun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Siberian, that won't be in sale for quite a while, as it come from Russia. Keep your money in the UK, plenty of good woods from here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 1 hour ago, JohnMo said: Siberian, that won't be in sale for quite a while, as it come from Russia. Keep your money in the UK, plenty of good woods from here. Yep. Ordered mine before it all kicked off. Was told a little later that there wasn’t any more coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Potter Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 7 hours ago, Meabh said: We are now starting building warrants for our knock down rebuild on the East Coast of Scotland and need to decide what to build our house with... - We are building "fabric first" and working with a self build eco architect - We have 2 single story elements and 1 double story element - Our engineer has suggested a passive raft foundation (sandy soil plus fabric first) I always thought we'd use SIPS but quotes for superstructures are back and the ICF plus raft foundation is roughly the same price as SIPs without foundation!! Should we just go for the cheaper ICF route? Is there anything about it that would put you off using it? Many thanks Looks good and exciting to be moving to the warrant stage. From an SE point of view it looks like you have a fair bit glass there, big openings thus building stability is an issue? Your SE may have already expained? This could be complex / costly to achieve with ICF. Also you have the weight of the building on sand with some probably hefty localised loads. @saveasteadingmay be along to give some pointers here about building on this type of material. SIPS maybe good but check for availability of contractors to install and your preferred method of build / cost curve etc. Also, again, bear in mind that you may want to make some changes as you go. I would price up the twin wall TF as others suggest and compare. Lastly don't rule out a standard TF with brandered out walls for example to get the insulation thickness required. It may not be quite perfect but it gives you more scope to adapt as you go and it's something that local contractors are maybe more familiar with, so savings could be made here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 2 hours ago, Gus Potter said: @saveasteadingmay be along to give some pointers here about building on this type of material. Available if there are more specific questions. I am deep in the subject at present and favour simple footings and ground bearing slabs if the circumstances allow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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