What's a reasonable build time in these unreasonable times, and what can I do to improve things?

[SimonD]

15 hours ago, pocster said:

I blame this forum . Spend all my time posting crap and commenting on crap . If it wasn’t for this forum would of finished my build years ago . Tempted to sue for compensation but haven’t got time as I need to reply to this post .

Maybe we should club together for a class action suit..

[SimonD]

5 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

Pick that.

 

Ideally, but sadly my cutting list doesn't fit into the Birch sheets I've got left! The faces of the drawers are all Birch ply as are all the cabinet and cupboard carcasses, but I think I'm going to have to settle for a B face softwood ply for the drawer carcasses due to cost - the BB Birch ply sheets are now between about £130 - £180 per sheet + VAT, compared to the softwood pine with a better grade face for £29 - £35+ VAT! Once they're finished up with some oil I don't think anyone except for me is going to notice when we open the drawers.

[Pocster]

2 hours ago, SimonD said:

Maybe we should club together for a class action suit..

I agree . I’ve lost years because of this forum not to mention the financial impact . I reckon I’ve lost maybe 6 months of my life just reading @Onoff ‘s novels . 

[Onoff]

6 hours ago, pocster said:

I reckon I’ve lost maybe 6 months of my life just reading @Onoff ‘s novels . 

 

Diyrotica is what its known as!

[Pocster]

29 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

Diyrotica is what its known as!

I had to look that up . Google came back with “ date sex “ . We haven’t had a date yet but I’m hopeful 😉

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, pocster said:

Google came back with “ date sex

Is that like Palm Sunday.

 

 

[Adsibob]

On 20/03/2022 at 17:42, puntloos said:

While we seem to be normalizing the world somewhat (even though covid is well on its way to a new peak, Ukraine, etc etc) I was wondering:

 

- What is the average build time for a 250m2 Non-TF, but high insulation new build?

 

6.5 years.

 

On 20/03/2022 at 17:42, puntloos said:

 

- What are the major reasons for delays?

 

1) builders and contractors are (expletive deleted)wits.

2) suppliers lie.

 

On 20/03/2022 at 17:42, puntloos said:

 

- Any war stories? What unique things held up your build and how could you have avoided this delay if you only .... ?

 

 

Contractors not sticking to their contracts and structural engineer taking eons to make any minor revisions. Joiner falsifying a major injury to get out of a contract.

generally people being (expletive deleted)witty.

 To avoid delay, don’t build. 

[SteamyTea]

4 hours ago, Adsibob said:

 

6.5 years.

 

 

1) builders and contractors are (expletive deleted)wits.

2) suppliers lie.

 

Contractors not sticking to their contracts and structural engineer taking eons to make any minor revisions. Joiner falsifying a major injury to get out of a contract.

generally people being (expletive deleted)witty.

 To avoid delay, don’t build. 

So on balance, a good experience.

 

Why is the building trade so dreadful?

[Onoff]

5 hours ago, Adsibob said:

6.5 years.

 

Some bathrooms/gates/electric whacker plate/<insert any other project here> take longer...

[Pocster]

30 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

Some bathrooms/gates/electric whacker plate/<insert any other project here> take longer...

It’s true . 6.5 years is impressive speed 

[ToughButterCup]

2 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

...

Why is the building trade so dreadful?

 

Have you read many posts on this forum ?

[Adsibob]

15 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

Why is the building trade so dreadful?

I really don’t know. It beggars belief that people can behave so unprofessionally in so many respects. My project is going to have taken almost a year longer than quoted for. Probably only 30% of that delay is down to my main contractor, and I thought he would be a bit late anyway. The rest is partially supply chain related, but mostly caused by poor attitudes amongst other contractors in respect of timeliness, professionalism and dependability. 
 

I suspect that one significant cause of problems is poor access to justice, resulting in little deterrence to breach contracts. Litigation in this country is exceedingly expensive. The small claims court is VERY slow, and if you have the misfortune to have to bring a claim for anything over £25k, there is a significant risk of having to pay your opponent’s costs. Another contributor to this phenomenon, I suspect, is that a lot of work in this industry is done on a cash basis, or at least part cash, and that gives the parties involved an (incorrect) idea that it is therefore lawless, and un-policeable. Finally, there is often no deep pockets to enforce against, as contractors often operate as limited companies with little assets, or as sole traders with little assets.

 

A further cause might be that the general building trade (ie I’m not talking about some of the more specialist trades like gas engineer, plumber or sparky) is seen by many as a trade suitable for unskilled labour. It isn’t of course, and all of us laymen here who have tried our hand at doing it ourselves know how difficult it is to get it done as quickly and competently as the professionals. The result of this, is that there are a lot of cowboys/impersonators/chancers and this brings down standards/expectations across the industry.

 

I’m not sure if this is related to the previous point or is a separate point in its own right, but I think lack of education and/or technical training in the UK is another factor. It’sa shame more investment has not been put into apprenticeship programmes and technical training. Learning on the job is all very well, but if it was more structured it would attract more young people, and create a more highly skilled and motivated workforce.

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Adsibob

[ToughButterCup]

9 hours ago, Adsibob said:

...

A further cause might be that the general building trade ... is seen by many as a trade suitable for unskilled labour.

...

 

Change  might  above for is  and I agree with you.

 

And - to me - the cause is simple. The English education system is the root cause. Young people in the Secondary Education system are locked into schooling  in one of two (or three if you count Private schools) types - academic or not academic.  That divide causes an almost irrevocable split between people who, until 12 years of age, went to the same school. Suddenly one group is told they are 'better' than the other group.

 

Between the groups, globally there is no parity of esteem.  Success is going to (locally) a grammar school. And few  seem to recognise that (also locally) that there are excellent secondary schools. 

 

I know I bang this drum an awful lot, but the German Secondary Education system has a lot to offer. Young people can swap school type (academic, practical, practical-theoretical)  at the end of each academic year. That leads to parity of esteem between the groups. Young people with A Levels (Abitur) are held in the same regard as those with practical qualifications. 

[Onoff]

52 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

Success is going to (locally) a grammar school.

 

Did nuffink for me.

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, ToughButterCup said:

Private schools

 

32 minutes ago, Onoff said:

Did nuffink for me.

Either.

[SimonD]

11 hours ago, Adsibob said:

Litigation in this country is exceedingly expensive. The small claims court is VERY slow, and if you have the misfortune to have to bring a claim for anything over £25k, there is a significant risk of having to pay your opponent’s costs.

 

Not to mention that there are a large number of district judges that don't have a proper handle on the law and some of them don't even know proper procedure. And then there's the organisation, or not, of the county courts themselves. I two cases we've turned up to hearings and the judge has sat there and said he doesn't know anything about the claim because he hasn't seen the bundle and questioned if it has been filed!

[ToughButterCup]

1 hour ago, Onoff said:

 

Did nuffink for me.

 

Exactly..... The above and this  ...

56 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

 

Either.

 

 

... make the point so much more powerfully than I could ever have done.

 

Had you both lived in Germany, you would have had the opportunity to move schools (as of right) at the end of the academic year to one more suited to your skills, attitudes and abilities. 

 

But, as  it is as a result of your own efforts , you've both turned out fine ... I think

 

 

[SteamyTea]

2 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

Had you both lived in Germany, you would have had the opportunity to move schools

Went to kindergarten in the Netherlands, state school in UK, then a private French one, then a prep school in Kent, then a Public school in Oxon.

Also, as my mother was a teacher, sat in a lot of classes in International schools when we were abroad.

All my school's were very, very different.

Not sure if changing school every 2 or 3 years is actually a good or a bad thing.

As a kid, school was just something 'you had to do'.

College and university was totally different. My choice of what I wanted to study, and where (away from family and friends, or distractions).

Both school and the workplace have, generally bored me. Not the work, it is the small minded pettiness of it all.

Being seen to be good was more important than actually being good.

[Pocster]

3 hours ago, ToughButterCup said:

But, as  it is as a result of your own efforts , you've both turned out fine ... I think

That’s highly questionable…..

[Pocster]

3 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

Being seen to be good was more important than actually being good.

I suffer this fate also .

[SimonD]

3 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

Being seen to be good was more important than actually being good.

 

That's quite good compared to the measure of some professional and law firms where it can be more about being seen to be present, whether or not you're actually doing anything, let alone doing anything good!

[Onoff]

44 minutes ago, pocster said:

That’s highly questionable…..

 

Did jew go too grammer to?

[SteamyTea]

11 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

Did jew go too grammer to?

Went to a good school, it was approved.

[Onoff]

2 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Went to a good school, it was approved.

 

I was at Borstal the other evening, the memories! 

[SteamyTea]

34 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

I was at Borstal the other evening, the memories!