Onoff Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 On the US / Candian solar sites they are quite big on passive solar thermal projects. Many are off grid and fuel/electricity can be an issue. This article is quite good imo: https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/chinese-passive-solar-greenhouses-at-fresh-pal-farms-in-canada/ Out there, given the average property size they can of course scale things up - as you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 4 minutes ago, Onoff said: On the US / Candian solar sites they are quite big on passive solar thermal projects. Toronto is at the same latitude as Madrid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 I have a hankering to dig up the part of my patio that gets the Sun. Lay down insulation, ufh pipes then black tarmac. Big heat collector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 1 minute ago, Onoff said: ufh pipes But you have to connect these up for them to work; you know that by now yes??? ( though you got away with a cold bathroom for another year! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 2 minutes ago, Onoff said: I have a hankering to dig up the part of my patio that gets the Sun. Lay down insulation, ufh pipes then black tarmac. Big heat collector. Did that to part heat my parents swimming pool. It worked reasonably well. That was nearly 40 years ago and what started to get me interested in the RE business. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 13 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: Did that to part heat my parents swimming pool. It worked reasonably well. That was nearly 40 years ago and what started to get me interested in the RE business. See @pocster it works! You know nothing troglodike! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 7 minutes ago, Onoff said: See @pocster it works! You know nothing troglodike! Slave trading trog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 42 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: Slave trading trog. I am destroyed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 4 minutes ago, pocster said: I am destroyed Like a statue in a university city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 2 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: Like a statue in a university city. Yes - I shouldn’t have done that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger440 Posted October 10, 2022 Author Share Posted October 10, 2022 Holy thread resurrection! Im back. What i neglected to mention last time was i didnt quite own said building. But i do now Maybe a thread on the tired, poorly put together cottage that i need to do some serious work to is in order? But a man has to get his priorities in order doesnt he? So lets start with the shed. As always, fabric first, and before its completey full, i need to insulate the roof. Question is how. At as low a cost as possible. So far, this looks like my lowest cost option https://www.trade-point.co.uk/departments/knauf-space-blanket-loft-insulation-roll-l-4m-w-1-14m-t-200mm/182138_TP.prd Held to the roof with wires. However, my concern here is that given the roof is corrugated, am i likely to get condensation forming in the "peaks" which would then ineviatably run along the blanket till it finds a join? As you can see in the pic, currently, overnight it gets damp on the inside, then the sun comes out and it burns off. Light grey dry, dark grey damp. Thoughts? I was advised by a freind who does commercial building roofing, that they often put unbagged rockwool on top of the roof and "over roof" it, so one surmises condensation forming is unlikely, otherwise it would just get wet? Other options? The only viable one ive come up with is spray foam. Clearly that does away with the risk, but £10-15k to do it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radian Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 12 hours ago, Roger440 said: So far, this looks like my lowest cost option https://www.trade-point.co.uk/departments/knauf-space-blanket-loft-insulation-roll-l-4m-w-1-14m-t-200mm/182138_TP.prd What's the history of this product? B&Q and lots of other places all had it at £14 but now seems out of stock. Sometimes marked as clearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S2D2 Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 22 minutes ago, Radian said: What's the history of this product? B&Q and lots of other places all had it at £14 but now seems out of stock. Sometimes marked as clearance. It doesn't mention it on this listing but afaik this used to be the stuff wrapped in plastic foil. Touted as the perfect mix for loft insulation but the vast majority of the time ended up a sweaty uninsulating mess as it's nowhere near breathable enough for most homes so just pooled water. Used to be many, many reviews with condensation issues that I notice have vanished from that listing... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radian Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 1 hour ago, S2D2 said: . Touted as the perfect mix for loft insulation but the vast majority of the time ended up a sweaty uninsulating mess as it's nowhere near breathable enough for most homes so just pooled water. Interesting. I read one review where the person noticed condensation in the bag when they were buying them. Sounds like the wrapping is partially hygroscopic, but it would also fail if even slightly punctured. I wonder if Knauf have terminated this product because of these failings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S2D2 Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 1 hour ago, Radian said: I wonder if Knauf have terminated this product because of these failings? Looks like it, it is now only one sided which avoids the plastic-bag-full-of-water issue: https://www.knaufinsulation.com.au/product/space-blanket @Roger440 do you have ventilation at the eaves there? If so you could leave a ventilation gap like a loft conversion and have a layer of wool under that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger440 Posted October 11, 2022 Author Share Posted October 11, 2022 7 hours ago, S2D2 said: Looks like it, it is now only one sided which avoids the plastic-bag-full-of-water issue: https://www.knaufinsulation.com.au/product/space-blanket @Roger440 do you have ventilation at the eaves there? If so you could leave a ventilation gap like a loft conversion and have a layer of wool under that? Don't know yet. If there is, I'd want to be closing it up! Otherwise I'll just lose any heat straight out. Bizzarely, the walls are cavity. I know the b&q link is old, but I believe you can still get it. But even if one side, is this going to stay dry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 Is that an asbestos roof? Careful if you’re messing with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radian Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 18 hours ago, Roger440 said: Bizzarely, the walls are cavity. That's handy! How wide? Even if it was only 50mm, then pumping in cheap EPS beads could reduce heat loss by around 75% (a couple of Watts/m²K down to 0.5W) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger440 Posted October 12, 2022 Author Share Posted October 12, 2022 2 hours ago, Wil said: Is that an asbestos roof? Careful if you’re messing with it! Wasn't built until 2001 so on safe ground with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger440 Posted October 12, 2022 Author Share Posted October 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Radian said: That's handy! How wide? Even if it was only 50mm, then pumping in cheap EPS beads could reduce heat loss by around 75% (a couple of Watts/m²K down to 0.5W) It's three inch. There no closers over the windows for some reason, but yes, that was my intention. Hadn't got round to looking for a DIY option yet. Hopefully that exists. But I need to deal with the roof first as that's a thermal catastrophe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 We have a commercial tin roof we did as your mate said and just laid fibre insulation over then another layer of tin over the whole lot. Would increase the roof height by 300mm or so though. Lucky you having a non-asbestos one. I have a similar looking (slightly smaller) shed covered in asbestos 😞 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S2D2 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 20 hours ago, Roger440 said: Don't know yet. If there is, I'd want to be closing it up! Otherwise I'll just lose any heat straight out. Bizzarely, the walls are cavity. I know the b&q link is old, but I believe you can still get it. But even if one side, is this going to stay dry? Don't be in a rush to close it up if it is there, it's an easy opportunity to get air temps equalish either side of the tin if the ventilation is sufficient, thereby eliminating condensation risk. You'd then build up your insulation layer underneath this gap. Insulating over would do the same by keeping the original tin warm but I'd want someone to sign off wind loading on a roof that size before proceeding. Have you put your postcode in the availability checker? Not available anywhere near me. If you can get it it'll be the old stuff fully bagged - nothing stopping you from ripping the bag off though for normal, breathable rockwool. Easy win on the walls with EPS beads, you'll want to do that before the roof as you'll lose access to the top of the cavity. Really consider your usage first as this won't come cheap due to the scale. Do you need to keep materials warm or just yourself? The heated jacket option mentioned earlier would be orders of magnitude cheaper if it's a workable solution. Cars were mentioned, if running for even a short period the ventilation required for fumes would render the insulation useless for a good chunk of time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger440 Posted October 12, 2022 Author Share Posted October 12, 2022 2 hours ago, S2D2 said: Don't be in a rush to close it up if it is there, it's an easy opportunity to get air temps equalish either side of the tin if the ventilation is sufficient, thereby eliminating condensation risk. You'd then build up your insulation layer underneath this gap. Insulating over would do the same by keeping the original tin warm but I'd want someone to sign off wind loading on a roof that size before proceeding. Have you put your postcode in the availability checker? Not available anywhere near me. If you can get it it'll be the old stuff fully bagged - nothing stopping you from ripping the bag off though for normal, breathable rockwool. Easy win on the walls with EPS beads, you'll want to do that before the roof as you'll lose access to the top of the cavity. Really consider your usage first as this won't come cheap due to the scale. Do you need to keep materials warm or just yourself? The heated jacket option mentioned earlier would be orders of magnitude cheaper if it's a workable solution. Cars were mentioned, if running for even a short period the ventilation required for fumes would render the insulation useless for a good chunk of time. Realistically, I need to close it up. As per my earlier drivel, ideally I'd like it at 10 degrees during winter and need humidity to be sub 65%. If I leave it open, I'm not going to achieve either. I can heat myself as you suggest, but everything will still go rusty. While there will be cars, this is not a professional workshop/business, just a hobby shed. A big one. I'm installing a 3 ft diameter extract fan, so if I need to, I can change the air really quickly. Over roofing isn't going to happen. I have a tame commercial building roofer/builder. He reckons it's north of £20k to over roof. The building is 3000sqft, but the roof is 4000ft as there is a 1000ft covered yard at the front. Whilst it clearly doesn't need insulating, it would look properly shit if it was two different roofs and hieghts! So, hopefully you can see, insulating from the inside on a DIY basis is realistically my only option. Question is how???? I can't just bang rockwool up there as fibres will forever be dropping down. The yanks seem to fix the issue with a plastic sheet covered system, but it just doesn't exist in the uk. Hence trying to semi replicate with bagged rockwool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 How are you going to warm it if you have a 1m diameter hole to the outside with a fan in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger440 Posted October 12, 2022 Author Share Posted October 12, 2022 21 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: How are you going to warm it if you have a 1m diameter hole to the outside with a fan in it? It will have an insulated door over it. It will only get used very occasionally if painting for example 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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