Planning Permission ideas

[Jilly]

Hi, my conversion included permission for a simple flat roof 6 x 2.5m extension on the road elevation (behind a hedge). It's in a Conservation Area, green belt and with an Article 4 Directive.  I'd like to increase this to 6 x 5m and have optimistically put the piles in ready for either outcome. absolutely no chance of Permitted Development. The council said the building has to be habitable before I can apply  under householder rules. I therefore built the main stables with a Full Plans, which is near completion, and the extension on a Building Notice. 

 

I now have a 'least waste/risk headache' conundrum. 

 

This extension had to be dismantled (hopefully I haven't lost my planning permission) as it was basically a shed. Should we roughly reinstate as a shed and then apply or can it be gone? It will be really wasteful to build it properly as per the planning permission, only to knock the wall down again. The first builder tried to persuade me to chance it, and build the whole thing, but that gave me nightmares. 

 

Thanks everyone.

[WWilts]

2 hours ago, Jilly said:

This extension had to be dismantled

Not understood the situation (what was there before, what was removed, what was put up, what you're aiming for). I'm slow, though.

 

In general, having something there tends to improve the chances of permission for putting something else there. Having nothing there tends to make permission more difficult, especially with the kinds of restrictions you listed.

[saveasteading]

I am not fully understanding. However in case this helps: once you have planning permission and start the project within the usually 3 year limit, the whole permission is locked and there is no time limit to complete.

Full Plans and Building Notice are Building reg's, not planning, so are of no concern to the planners other than proof of when you started the work.

 

Please explain re the shed: are you wanting to apply for planning permission to further extend the house onto where a 'shed' used to be?

[ToughButterCup]

14 hours ago, Jilly said:

...

The council said the building has to be habitable before I can apply  under householder rules

....

 

This appears to me to be the key issue.

Could you share the exact wording of their Decision Notice in relation to the word 'habitable' please.

[SteamyTea]

14 hours ago, Jilly said:

 

I now have a 'least waste/risk headache' conundrum

Very appropriate for piling.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/sunk-cost

 

 

[saveasteading]

14 hours ago, Jilly said:

The first builder tried to persuade me to chance it,

Ask him if you can delay his payment until it is approved.  Easy to risk 'someone else's money'.

[SteamyTea]

Can you do a reverse CurlyWurly effect, make it gradually larger over time, rather that smaller.

Then put a big Waggonwheel on it, as an act of defiance and irony.

[Jilly]

Sorry I didn't explain properly. It's a stable conversion (which we have nearly finished) which had a hayshed ' on the back which they also gave me permission to convert, however, it's a bit small and I want it to be bigger. The quirks of planning mean that you can't change anything on a conversion without a whole new planning application. However, once you live there you can do a normal householder application for an extension. (the definition of complete varies with different councils). I think the safest thing is to throw a shed back up and apply to enlarge it. The dodgy builder is long gone. 

 

The waste I was referring to is that really I should build it fully to the plans, but I don't want it that small, so it (providing they let me do it!) would have to be half demolished.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Jilly

[saveasteading]

4 hours ago, Jilly said:

throw a shed back up and apply to enlarge it.

You can probably design it so that the extra metre or so fits in efficiently if you get permission.

Nothing stops you from building out to the piles as that is foundations not 'the building'.

Perhaps you can build a demountable outer wall that can be moved when you get permission.

[Faz]

Hi Jilly - you have to ask yourself - is it better to ask for permission or forgiveness?  Are you likely to be dobbed in by neighbours / nimbies etc? Are the planners ever likely to come and have a look (rare!)? How obvious a change is it - clearly doesn't help being on the road side?

 

You can apply for retrospective consent if your fingeres get caught in the till - how likely is it to be granted (Article 4 and all of that). How much would it cost to reinstate vs building to plans and doing it later? What are the implications on programme?  Is there a compromise where you could make it look a bit more in line with consented drawings while taking a bit of a flyer?

 

At the end of the day you just have to take a view - hopefully the points above give you some perspective to assess it.

 

Personally I would chance it depending on the cost side - 4 years and you are in the clear either way.

[saveasteading]

4 hours ago, Faz said:

taking a bit of a flyer?

The planners will overlook a minor difference, and this was once defined to me as 'a brick'. in other words practical tolerances.

Doubling the size of this element is not minor.

While it is rue that few buildings have to be reduced, it does happen. More likely would be that, having deliberately ignored the permission granted, they will be upset at the contempt, and it may take a long time, and cost, to get it through this way. 

The conversation is recorded here too, and you have already asked for the planners' advice, which will not help.

 

I think I would either.

1. get formal advice from a Planning Agent, who may know a way out of this. or

2. Build as permitted but with a steel frame and stud based wall that can be removed/ moved.

3. Don't build this extension until you are occupying the ret of it and can do it the habitation way, as you explained (but I have not checked on).

 

But it has to be your shout.