Henley blocks inside consumer unit

[tvrulesme]

Just to preempt any concerns, all the works below will be carried out by a qualified electrician.

 

In the process of buying a house and just trying to get a head start on planning electrics. As I am trying to eliminate untidy mess is putting a Henly block inside a consumer unit allowed?

 

I only need a 3 way (1 in and 2 out) for 25mm 100A and seems a waste to have yet another thing on the fire resistant board when there is a load of space inside the consumer unit.

 

If not allowed does such a thing as a 3 way din rail connector of this size exist and would this be allowed?

 

Thinking of something like this with 1 x in and 2 x out

 

 

Or this but for 25mm cables

 

 

[Roys]

There is never enough room inside a consumer unit to fit Henley’s or any other fancy type of DIN rail connector, that would mean 6 x 25mm Meter tails inside a consumer unit, nope no chance, plus the consumer unit won’t be type tested for that (not manufacturer certified).

 

[ProDave]

I would first question what are you proposing to feed from this henley block.  Lets have the full picture.

[TonyT]

It’s a silly idea.

Henley blocks are not designed for this.

 

[joth]

4 hours ago, tvrulesme said:

I am trying to eliminate untidy mess

Put all the mess (main rising cable, cut out, meter, tails, blocks and CU) into an outer cabinet, paint it a pretty colour, and call it the "meta-consumer unit". Job done  

[tvrulesme]

4 hours ago, ProDave said:

I would first question what are you proposing to feed from this henley block.  Lets have the full picture.

Fair point. So excuse the massive simplification but this is how I see it. Need to feed a garage CU so will need a 100A fuse between meter and garage CU if I want to be able to use the garage CU to also power a EV Charger. 100A Fuse is din rail mount so as far as my brain sees it I'm only missing a method of splitting the original 100A supply to do this.  

 

Clearly I'm not an electrician, just interested and I don't understand why technically you wouldn't be able to do this

 

 

Oh and I forgot to add in the isolator switch after the meter so will have to imagine that

 

Edited November 2, 2021 by tvrulesme
Forgot the isolator switch

[tvrulesme]

2 hours ago, joth said:

Put all the mess (main rising cable, cut out, meter, tails, blocks and CU) into an outer cabinet, paint it a pretty colour, and call it the "meta-consumer unit". Job done  

 

 

God that sounds awful. What is this box after a box after a box stuff that the Electricity industry seems to love?

[tvrulesme]

4 hours ago, Roys said:

There is never enough room inside a consumer unit to fit Henley’s or any other fancy type of DIN rail connector, that would mean 6 x 25mm Meter tails inside a consumer unit, nope no chance, plus the consumer unit won’t be type tested for that (not manufacturer certified).

 

 

Manufacturer certified you have a point but not enough room? I beg to differ. One I am thinking of is a Hager dual row and there is a tonne of empty space in the one I saw in the shop. Particularly if mounted on the din rail

 

https://hager.com/uk/products/h/vml10606-conunitd10dual-row66w100asw-disc

[tvrulesme]

3 hours ago, TonyT said:

It’s a silly idea.

Henley blocks are not designed for this.

 

 

So an alternative? What are they designed for if not splitting cables into multiples?

[ProDave]

Lets face it, the supply head, electricity meter and big tails that connect to the consumer unit are not pretty.  They need to be enclosed in a cupboard where they can;t be seen, or a convenient cupboard designed for this is a "Meter Box"

 

That is what we have so the consumer unit is on the wall in the utility room with no visible cables (actually partly recessed into the wall)

 

If you did it the conventional way, you would just have your henley blocks and a switch fuse in the meter box and all would be neat and tidy.

 

Do you actually need 100A to the garage CU?  I doubt it, and in any event I would never put more than an 80A fuse in the switch fuse otherwise there is no discrimination between that and the supply fuse.

 

Now, if you could manage with 63A to the garage CU, you could carefully choose the make of consumer unit, fit a high integrity consumer unit (posh name for one that allows a few circuits not protected by RCD) then you could feed the garage CU from a 63A MCB.

[tvrulesme]

Just now, ProDave said:

Lets face it, the supply head, electricity meter and big tails that connect to the consumer unit are not pretty.  They need to be enclosed in a cupboard where they can;t be seen, or a convenient cupboard designed for this is a "Meter Box"

 

That is what we have so the consumer unit is on the wall in the utility room with no visible cables (actually partly recessed into the wall)

 

If you did it the conventional way, you would just have your henley blocks and a switch fuse in the meter box and all would be neat and tidy.

 

Do you actually need 100A to the garage CU?  I doubt it, and in any event I would never put more than an 80A fuse in the switch fuse otherwise there is no discrimination between that and the supply fuse.

 

Now, if you could manage with 63A to the garage CU, you could carefully choose the make of consumer unit, fit a high integrity consumer unit (posh name for one that allows a few circuits not protected by RCD) then you could feed the garage CU from a 63A MCB.

 

 

As usual ProDave a superb answer. Yes sorry it should have been an 80A fuse in my picture. 

 

So by my basic calculations I will need 69A in the garage as it's going to supply all of this

 

 

The current meter is in a cupboard but is in the kitchen and I have pretty bad OCD which will make me want to vomit every time I open the cupboard. Really don't want to move the main power cable in and not sure I would be able to as it's a listed building and they are super picky with this stuff

 

[TonyT]

1 hour ago, tvrulesme said:

 

So an alternative? What are they designed for if not splitting cables into multiples?

Not designed for fitting in consumer units.

 

take the tails that come out of the meter and fit a pair of Henley blocks.

1 set of tails to the consumer unit int the house.

1 set of tails to a kmf switch fuse to feed garage consumer unit.

nice and easy

[ProDave]

1 hour ago, tvrulesme said:

 

So by my basic calculations I will need 69A in the garage as it's going to supply all of this

Diversity will allow that lot to work from a 63A MCB

[tvrulesme]

19 minutes ago, TonyT said:

Not designed for fitting in consumer units.

 

take the tails that come out of the meter and fit a pair of Henley blocks.

1 set of tails to the consumer unit int the house.

1 set of tails to a kmf switch fuse to feed garage consumer unit.

nice and easy

Ok this is the part which makes no sense to me. 
 

It’s not ok to put a protected box in a CU but it’s ok for Hager to pre-wire with two 25mm2 cables into a single entry point? Could I not just ask the spark to ignore the whole connection block thing and stuff two cables into an entry point to double up the outputs?

 

[tvrulesme]

4 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Diversity will allow that lot to work from a 63A MCB

true. So in that scenario no need for 80amp fuse either? Just straight from house CU MCB to garage CU

[TonyT]

You won’t get 2x 25mm tails in each pole of a 100A main switch 

[ProDave]

Something like this https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/HGVML916CURKPP.html

 

Configurable as a high integrity board and 63A MCB's available.

[tvrulesme]

30 minutes ago, TonyT said:

You won’t get 2x 25mm tails in each pole of a 100A main switch 

There are definitely 2x 25mm 100A flexible links in a single neutral pole of the 100A DP isolator in the picture above. The angle isn’t great but can take another tomorrow 

[tvrulesme]

Another picture. 1 link to top row of duplex, one to bottom