Reduce puddle buildup

[AdamF]

Hi,

 

We've recently had a patio laid by a landscaper but large puddles appear to be forming on the patio (pictures attached). Is there anything that can be done about this? There is building sand and soil directly underneath so can a drain be installed?

 

Thanks,

 

Adam

[saveasteading]

9 minutes ago, AdamF said:

Is there anything that can be done about this?

Contractor can lift the blocks and do this area again, with a slope. 

where would you like the water to go?

[AdamF]

15 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Contractor can lift the blocks and do this area again, with a slope. 

where would you like the water to go?

 

Thanks for the reply!

 

Do the blocks need to be lifted then? Can a drain not be installed to go into the soil underneath or does that not work?

[Big Jimbo]

14 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Contractor can lift the blocks and do this area again, with a slope. 

where would you like the water to go?

Over to the neighbours via the fence.......I expect that a lot of it already is. Am i right in saying that under 15square mt's, SUDS don't come into play ? However over 15square mt'S has to either drain onto your own land, or be suds compliant ?

[markc]

Just now, AdamF said:

 

Thanks for the reply!

 

Do the blocks need to be lifted then? Can a drain not be installed to go into the soil underneath or does that not work?

The blocks should have been laid with a drainage slope, and the puddle implies they were not bedded down well and have now sunk.

drilling a hole and filling with gravel would probably work but you have had this done professionally and it should be right.

[Declan52]

Water will find the lowest part and gather here. Was the new patio meant to fall this way or do you have a drain elsewhere that the majority of the water runs to.

A drain is easy to install but obviously a run of the paving bricks needs to be lifted to get from where these puddles are to the actual drain. 

What is on the other side of that fence??

 

[saveasteading]

2 minutes ago, AdamF said:

Do the blocks need to be lifted then

lifting and relaying the blocks to that puddle area is the work of 2 hours, and only some more sharp sand needed. They can shape it to tip under the fence or outwards, but check it doesn't just make another puddle.

A drain into the soil will not necessarily work and may wash away the ground beneath.

A proper drain will also have to go to an outfall somewhere.

Hence I prefer to use gravity and flow.

TIP use a golf ball or other hard, smooth  ball (snooker, lacrosse) and roll it gently all directions.

your watering can method is good too of course.

 

As a bodge you could rake out the sand at the deepest point, and up to the fence, and the water might go away. Then the blocks will move and perhaps settle over time. Or get hold of the kind of blocks which don't use sand fill, and are designed to drain.

[saveasteading]

7 minutes ago, markc said:

drilling a hole and filling with gravel

A good idea as a better bodge. Or take out a block or half block and replace with gravel.

 

If the builder will come back, just ask him to reset it.

[ETC]

I remember this exact same problem with the flags to the entrance of one of our buildings- got the builder back and he said “sure just drill a few holes in it” - terrible idea and not what we paid for. Got him to relay the flags.

 

Seriously - the patio should have been laid to a fall to grass or some other porous surface. As other posters have said ask him to come back and lift the affected area. 

[AdamF]

29 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

Water will find the lowest part and gather here. Was the new patio meant to fall this way or do you have a drain elsewhere that the majority of the water runs to.

A drain is easy to install but obviously a run of the paving bricks needs to be lifted to get from where these puddles are to the actual drain. 

What is on the other side of that fence??

 

There is no drain and I think the patio wasn't meant to fall this way.. it just happened. The contractor has done a bad job in levelling and we've had to correct some issues ourselves (with the exception of this issue). There is no drain at the moment and on the other side of the fence is a neighbours garden

[AdamF]

22 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

A good idea as a better bodge. Or take out a block or half block and replace with gravel.

 

If the builder will come back, just ask him to reset it.

The builder has done a terrible job so we'd rather not get him back tbh. I like the idea of taking out a block and filling with gravel although it is a bodge like you say

 

How would we go about resetting it? Do we just need to remove some of the sand to create a slight incline towards the fence? 

[AdamF]

26 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

lifting and relaying the blocks to that puddle area is the work of 2 hours, and only some more sharp sand needed. They can shape it to tip under the fence or outwards, but check it doesn't just make another puddle.

A drain into the soil will not necessarily work and may wash away the ground beneath.

A proper drain will also have to go to an outfall somewhere.

Hence I prefer to use gravity and flow.

TIP use a golf ball or other hard, smooth  ball (snooker, lacrosse) and roll it gently all directions.

your watering can method is good too of course.

 

As a bodge you could rake out the sand at the deepest point, and up to the fence, and the water might go away. Then the blocks will move and perhaps settle over time. Or get hold of the kind of blocks which don't use sand fill, and are designed to drain.

Thanks for all the suggestions. Which type of blocks are designed to drain? Can you send some examples?

[AdamF]

34 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

Water will find the lowest part and gather here. Was the new patio meant to fall this way or do you have a drain elsewhere that the majority of the water runs to.

A drain is easy to install but obviously a run of the paving bricks needs to be lifted to get from where these puddles are to the actual drain. 

What is on the other side of that fence??

 

There is no drain on the other side. Only a neighbour's garden

[saveasteading]

14 minutes ago, AdamF said:

Which type of blocks are designed to drain?

https://www.marshalls.co.uk/commercial/paving/permeable-paving

I don't know if they are the same module, and it will be a hassle getting just a few.

 

To take blocks out, the first one is tricky, prising it up with skinny screwdrivers. 

Then the neighbouring blocks  are easy BUT you must avoid them spreading into the space or they never go back in. So kneel on a board.

 

Now we know the circumstances, a little bodge sounds pragmatic.  If the edge blocks are on sand (not concrete) just try these.

1) bash the centre edge one down with a timber. if it settles by 5mm the puddle will follow. 

2) otherwise take it out and try to re-lay it lower.

3) or rake it out and infill with whatever is lower and looks ok to you...split block/gravel/ concrete with a dip in it.

[AdamF]

5 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

https://www.marshalls.co.uk/commercial/paving/permeable-paving

I don't know if they are the same module, and it will be a hassle getting just a few.

 

To take blocks out, the first one is tricky, prising it up with skinny screwdrivers. 

Then the neighbouring blocks  are easy BUT you must avoid them spreading into the space or they never go back in. So kneel on a board.

 

Now we know the circumstances, a little bodge sounds pragmatic.  If the edge blocks are on sand (not concrete) just try these.

1) bash the centre edge one down with a timber. if it settles by 5mm the puddle will follow. 

2) otherwise take it out and try to re-lay it lower.

3) or rake it out and infill with whatever is lower and looks ok to you...split block/gravel/ concrete with a dip in it.

Thank you so much for your suggestion. We will try that as the edge blocks are on sand. I managed to replace a broken brick in the middle of the patio quite easily myself with a screwdriver and a chisel to prise it up and we relaid the shed base (on the left side with the large pavers) as the level was way off so I think we can probably do this ourselves Will send pictures if we manage to resolve it

Edited September 28, 2021 by AdamF

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, markc said:

drilling a hole and filling with gravel

Easy peasy then. take out 3 edge blocks. scoop some sand out to be 10mm lower, smoothing up to zero to make a dish, or not as you choose, then relay.