3 phase electric supply from 3 same phase cables?

[WWilts]

An electricity supplier contracted to provide 3 phase supply ("dual phase 46kVA" actually) for a stated fee.

 

They fixed a date, turned up, and installed their cutout in the client's kiosk. Then they discovered that their mains had 3 cables but all on the same phase. So left without connecting to any of their cables.

 

Is there a simple way to convert the 3 single phases into a 3 phase supply? Perhaps with something like a phase converter?
 

Want to understand enough of the technical background to have an intelligent discussion about ways forward (short of them reneging on the contract and asking for loads more money)

 

 

[ProDave]

What is the reason for wanting 3 phase?

 

If it is just more capacity then three single phase supplies would do that.

 

If you NEED to run some 3 phase equipment, you will need a phase converter, but they are expensive and not a whole house solution.

[WWilts]

3 minutes ago, ProDave said:

What is the reason for wanting 3 phase?

Fast EV charging

 

Would phase converters cost several thousand pounds?

Edited September 23, 2021 by WWilts

[ProDave]

That raises an interesting question:  So a 3 phase EV charger actually need 3 phases?  If it just goes into a rectifier to produce DC to charge a battery, then probably not.  I wonder what manufacturers would say?

[WWilts]

3 minutes ago, ProDave said:

So a 3 phase EV charger actually need 3 phases?  If it just goes into a rectifier to produce DC to charge a battery, then probably not

Nobody knows less about this than I do.
But it sounds very promising. Might it be that the DNO can simply connect the 3 same phase cables to their cutout, and that would work for fast EV charging?

That would be great

[WWilts]

Found these. But what do they mean?
If the DNO connects 3 cables to the cutout, all 3 cables being the same phase, can that enable fast 22kVA charging of electric vehicles?

[Roys]

Oh this is an interesting one.

Dave certainly has the best idea of asking the charger manufacturer, looking at your block diagram 3 phases IN phase would appear to be OK but it it is only an assumption and need confirmation from manufacturer.

Please tell us what they say.

[WWilts]

Alternately, if a dual phase 46kVA supply is connected to the cutout as contracted, will a single phase (presumably 23kVA) suffice for fast charging (22kW)?

[pdf27]

3 minutes ago, WWilts said:

Alternately, if a dual phase 46kVA supply is connected to the cutout as contracted, will a single phase (presumably 23kVA) suffice for fast charging (22kW)?

That depends on how the charger is set up. Chances are it won't work though - the limit is going to be the current pushed down a wire, and 3-phase runs at 415V phase-phase rather than the 230V phase-neutral from a single phase.

[TonyT]

I will take a photo of one at work tomorrow if i remember!

[WWilts]

plus there is this:
https://go.ads-tec.de/en/hpc/dispenser#intro

 

Claims ultra-fast charging without needing to upgrade electricity supply, afai can tell

[SteamyTea]

24 minutes ago, WWilts said:

Claims ultra-fast charging without needing to upgrade electricity supply, afai can tell

Seems to be a battery charging off the mains, then a car charger running off the battery.

 

[WWilts]

Does it make sense to have 3 "same phase" supplies to the "3 phase" cutout already installed by DNO? That would enable connection without extra costs.

[TonyT]

[TonyT]

[TonyT]

[TonyT]

[TonyT]

So that’s photos of my 3 phase 22 kw charger.

first photo is power in via swa cable and top photo is the socket.

[WWilts]

As a layperson with no knowledge, it looks as if 3 power supply cables are going into the innards.
They are 3 different phases.
Is it possible physically to replace those supply cables with others that are identical in all respects, except for being on the same phase?

[WWilts]

One EV charger supplier provided this Figure.

Instructions say "Ensure that incoming cables are connected to the appropriate terminal as follows: Earth: Green/Yellow Neutral: Blue Live 1: Brown Live 2: Black (three-phase units only) Live 3: Grey (three-phase units only)"

 

Over the phone the advice was that 32A was required.

An example installation guide here:
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/podpoint-website/PP-D-130012-15-Solo-Smart-Charger-Install-Guide-1.pdf

Question: Is it useful to ask the DNO to connect power to all 3 cutouts, even though all 3 supply cables are on the same phase? EV charging is the intention.