Do building regs require a thumbturn on replacement front doorlock?

[Adsibob]

Our house is a 1930s semi. A few decades after it was built, a timber porch was added (with clay tile roof). Although that timber porch had a lockable front door, the more secure original front door of the house remained, so one had to open the porch door and then the front door to get in.

As part of our renovation/extension project we are knocking down the old timber porch, building a cavity wall porch, and doing away with having two lockable doors. Instead we will just have one door within what will form the new external wall of the house/new porch. There will be no lockable door where the original front door of the house was.

The new front door has multi-point locks, all glazing is laminated and it is PAS24 certified, so it definitely applies with Approved Document Q (even though it doesn't need to, as this is not a new build or a dwelling formed by a change of use). My question is, as a matter of fire safety under Approved Document B, do the building regs require me to ensure it can be opened from the inside without a key. My BCO seems to think that it does, but when I challenged him on the wording of Approved Document B (which I've pasted below) he was lost for words and said he "had to go and check". Not sure what he had to go and check. Is there further guidance on how to interpret the approved documents which are not contained within the approved documents themselves?

 

The relevant wording, so far as I can see, is the following:

General provisions

 

Emergency escape windows and external doors

 

2.10 Windows or external doors providing emergency escape should comply with all of the following.

 

a. Windows should have an unobstructed openable area that complies with all of the following.

i. A minimum area of 0.33m2 .

ii. A minimum height of 450mm and a minimum width of 450mm (the route through the window may be at an angle rather than straight through).

iii. The bottom of the openable area is a maximum of 1100mm above the floor.

 

b. People escaping should be able to reach a place free from danger from fire. Courtyards or inaccessible back gardens should comply with Diagram 2.5.

 

c. Locks (with or without removable keys) and opening stays (with child-resistant release catches) may be fitted to escape windows.

d. Windows should be capable of remaining open without being held.   

I therefore cannot see that there is any requirement to have a thumbturn on an external door. In particular, 2.10(c) makes clear that the lock on an escape window may be fitted "with or without removable keys". There is therefore no logical reason as to why the same wouldn't be true of an external door.

Now it's possible he will refer to provision 2.10(b) and say that if the front door is locked and one doesn't have a key one cannot get out. But it would be bizarre to interpret it that way in the absence of a clear provision that creates a positive requirement to have a thumbturn.

 

Another query I have is whether any of this applies at all. What if I was doing a renovation that was generally caught by building regs but chose not to replace my perfectly good front door. Would i then suddenly have to upgrade my lock to one that had a thumbturn just to comply with building regs?

 

[Temp]

We don't have one on any external doors. BCO never said anything when he signed off our house but he was quite laid back about everything.

[Temp]

Did some googling and found a few people asking the same question. Some replies said yes the door must open from the inside without a key but when challanged about the regulations nobody was able to cite what regulation required that. Several said it was mandatory for an HMO.  Approved documents sometimes refer to BS standards so perhaps its in one of them?

 

Perhaps try asking a few door manufacturers to see if they know? 

Edited July 1, 2021 by Temp

[Adsibob]

So what’s the solution when I have gone to the expense of going with a private BCO and he is being a complete twit?!

[Roundtuit]

Ask him to point out exactly where that requirement is specified, just for clarity.  I think it's bollocks. I've seen it required for communal facilities, but never seen it in a domestic situation.

[Adsibob]

Good news: the BCO has backed down and admitted that “on reflection” there is no requirement for a thumb turn.

[tonyshouse]

I would never want to need to find a key in order to get out of my house, all my customers got thumb turns as standard, and friends are advised to get them. 
 

my house is single hand exit, when lever is depressed to pull back the latch the shoot bolt unlocks too, this was due to become a requirement but slow coming into force 

[Mr Punter]

British Standard BS8621 Dead Locks have a thumb turn.

 

If you are not replacing the door or the lock I don't see why it would apply to you.  The front doors we fit on new build either have thumb turn or just door handle to open.  It is also an NHBC requirement.

[Adsibob]

The reason I’m against a thumb turn is that our door is like this. As you can see, it is mostly glass. So although it is PAS24, and the glass will therefore be laminated, my gut is telling me that a burglar looking through the glass could see that behind the steel lockbox is a thumb turn, and that might inspire him to try to break the glass to get in. I’m not sure he (or, let’s be egalitarian, she) would actually get in, but as good as PAS24 is, it is not perfect.

i can design the door to have a wider lockbox, so more of the thumb turn is obscured by the steel, or I can just lose the thumb turn and ensure there are spare keys in a place that everybody can find easily in a fire.

 Thoughts?

[Mr Punter]

16 minutes ago, Adsibob said:

i can design the door to have a wider lockbox, so more of the thumb turn is obscured by the steel, or I can just lose the thumb turn and ensure there are spare keys in a place that everybody can find easily in a fire.

 Thoughts?

 

By the time someone has broken through toughened laminated glass they will have made a terrific amount of noise.

 

I recently had to assist a neighbour gain forced entry through a triple glazed window by breaking it.  Took a while and was quite a racket.

[TonyT]

Letter box thumb turn opener

 

https://gbr.grandado.com/products/qsupokey-arrived-thumb-turn-by-pass-tool?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIqZrPtpnF8QIVzYBQBh0xuATxEAQYBCABEgJ-D_D_BwE&variant=UHJvZHVjdFZhcmlhbnQ6MTk3MjU2OTQ

 

 

[DevilDamo]

That requirement has never applied to residential extensions/alterations.

[Adsibob]

22 minutes ago, TonyT said:

Letter box thumb turn opener

 

https://gbr.grandado.com/products/qsupokey-arrived-thumb-turn-by-pass-tool?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIqZrPtpnF8QIVzYBQBh0xuATxEAQYBCABEgJ-D_D_BwE&variant=UHJvZHVjdFZhcmlhbnQ6MTk3MjU2OTQ

 

 

Yes, well this is why I don’t like the idea of a thumb turn! Having said that, our letterbox is a through the wall one with a lockable security flap.

[tonyshouse]

Break the glass and any burglar is in already, thumb turn or not