Moving Power and Long Connection to Water Main

[Cauk]

After many years of looking, I've put an offer in on a conversion opportunity and have been realistic (I think) about budgets allowing for £2.5k/sqm. 

 

Drainage will be private (no problem, I think) and electricity is on site.

 

Electricity is on-site - there is an 11kw supply in the plot next door that supplies a pole on our plot which in turn feeds overhead to next door and another house down the road. I'd like to bury the cables rather than have overhead and have requested an estimate off SSE. I am awaiting detail of whether the previous landowner agreed way-leaves for the power and telecom poles on the site. I'm guessing the necessary burying of cables and moving of poles, given the need to still come above ground to supply next door and the house down the road will not give me any change from £20k? Am I under/over?

 

Water is more tricky. The surrounding houses have a patchy and unofficial supply that "comes over the field". I suspect it's branched off a mains connection from the farm over the hill rather than a fully private supply (I am investigating); it doesn't show on any of the water maps. In any event, the neighbours say it has no pressure so that doesn't seem like an option for us.

 

I've looked at bore holes, the substrate is chalk so maybe there is water down there, but i'm not convinced we can get 50m clear of neighbouring waste and we are slightly downhill from next door so I'm not convinced this is an option unless we can get agreement from the vendor to site it on higher ground in the field he owns next door. Have people done this?

 

Otherwise, nearest water main is 600m down the road. I spoke with Southern Water Developer Services who advised me to fill out an s43 new connection form - I didn't think this sounded like the right one but the lady said to explain that I was looking for an estimate and as a single self-build it would get me the answer. Sadly, it did not, £80 lighter and the response was Southern Water was "it's an excessive length for a new connection, can you get a pipe to within 2m of us". 

 

What I was actually looking for was an estimate of the cost for them to lay a new pipe up to us; I may or may not get the neighbours on board given the patchy supply, and even if i don't i suspect if i do stump up the money for the connection they will leech off it at some point as they could just pay a small connection fee once it's in the edge of the plots. 

 

Does anyone know how to ballpark the cost? 600m, single track country lane, nice wide grass verge of between 1.5-3m along the whole run, pretty much flat. I may be able to get the vendor to agree to me running it in the field alongside. I'd rather have the water company adopt it, so I'm guessing the verge is better. I'm going to try phoning Developer Services again, but in the meantime has anyone else had this done by a water company? Running a private pipe that distance doesn't seem like a good idea?

 

I've searched and can find some examples but nothing quite the same, I'm grateful for any insights..

 

[Mr Punter]

This is going to be a pain.  It would be good if SW would extend the main and use if to serve all the houses.  The plans only show mains, not connections.

 

SW use another firm to do the planning and carry out the works - it may be Clancy Docwra.  If you can get to speak to someone from there who look at the map and give you some proper advice you may make progress.

[PeterW]

You’ll be looking at £50-60k for that power and water service connection via the road, and burying those LV lines. Unless you can get that off the price of the plot I would walk away. 

[ProDave]

Re the power.  A friend near here paid about £10K to have about 100 metres of 11KV undergrounded, and for the new connection to his new house including a pole mounted transformer.

[SuperJohnG]

Surface water won't affect a borehole as it has casing installed till you hit bedrock. 

 

Tread carefully though...never guaranteed water...I was in the 3% that didn't didn't get a viable water supply straight away. Although think ots going to pan out now. (Drilled two holes one at 120m and one at 60m). 

 

For my power...I came 500m. 6 poles from three fields away which brought it into my plot where an 18kVA (I think ) transformer was installed then I put the last 80m underground. I just dug the trench they laid it. £18k. (Say an extra 500 for the trench on my bit). 

[Phaedrus]

4 hours ago, Cauk said:

I'm guessing the necessary burying of cables and moving of poles, given the need to still come above ground to supply next door and the house down the road will not give me any change from £20k? Am I under/over?

After considerable haggling with the Distribution Network Operator, we're just over £8k for undergrounding 110m of overhead, share of transformer upgrade & house connection

 

5 hours ago, Cauk said:

Otherwise, nearest water main is 600m down the road

Housebuilder's Bible quotes £33/m for service trenches.  That's easy digging on your own site so £20k minimum even before any works in road, crossings & connection costs.  Over that distance you'll drop about 1bar pressure with 32mm pipe so stepping up to 50mm would be worth considering, particularly if sharing with neighbours.  We have the same issue with the water company not wishing to extend their main to allow short connections to multiple properties.  They insist on providing the main to the nearest point and then require each owner to connect there even if this means crossing another owner's property.

 

5 hours ago, Cauk said:

Drainage will be private (no problem, I think)

How do you know it will work (e.g. have you or the vendor done a basic drainage strategy study backed up with site investigation?)?  What solution are you proposing and have you costed it?

[Cauk]

Thanks for all the input;

1. I'll try Clancy D directly, it looks like they do works for Southern Water - I won't be too optimistic about getting a good answer.
2. £10k for 100m of 11kw doesn't sound so bad, and nor does £8k for 110m; I'd estimated maybe £15-20k for the Electrical rerouting so it doesn't sound like i'm far off.
3. For a borehole it's not so much the surface water is that the issue - the houses each side have septic tanks/cess pits and looking at the age of the properties I'm guessing they haven't been replaced any time recently; based on that, I don't think I can get 50m away from all of those and site a treatment plant of my own. Substrate is chalk so from what I've read if there is water it will be pretty deep. Perhaps it's a last resort if I can get someone to look at it without having to spend too much $$ prior to buying the land.
4. Water to the mains is still preferred; as you've said it would make sense to put in a fatter pipe. I'm going to speak with the vendor and check they own the field either side, as it may be an agreement to be made to put our own pipe in. I walked the road today and while the verge is nice and wide the power poles alternate so I'm guessing some might be in the way; if we could put it on the field side of the hedge we could get an easier trench.
5. Last point on drainage - I don't know for sure it will work, I'm being a dufus and assuming based on the neighbouring houses having private drainage and the planning permission having a biorock treatment system on it; I'm not convinced there has been a drainage study but I don't have all the documentation yet..

I'll try water and power companies again this week, speak with the vendor about access/trenches and also try Clancy D. 

[Dave Jones]

see if the farmer will let you bury the pipe in his field the other side of the verge. Even if you drop him £5k cash for the effort still be quids in.

[Phaedrus]

On 17/04/2021 at 17:14, Cauk said:

After many years of looking, I've put an offer in on a conversion opportunity and have been realistic (I think) about budgets allowing for £2.5k/sqm. 

I can imagine it's tremendously exciting to feel your self-build dream is about to be realised.  However, I'm a bit puzzled by you submitting an offer before completing your due diligence.  What response have you had to your offer?  Are you able to exit with dignity if your further investigations show that the purchase/project isn't viable?

 

4 hours ago, Cauk said:

Last point on drainage - I don't know for sure it will work, I'm being a dufus and assuming based on the neighbouring houses having private drainage and the planning permission having a biorock treatment system on it; I'm not convinced there has been a drainage study but I don't have all the documentation yet..

I would not take much reassurance from the neighbours' arrangements as what was once common is no longer acceptable (e.g. septic tank to ditch).  There is a hierarchy of options with connection to mains sewerage being preferred.  You have to show that this is completely infeasible before going to an off-mains system.  It would appear that someone has done some work to specify a package treatment works.  Look into what this would discharge to and get some assurance of feasibility by looking into the soils, groundwater level and depth to bedrock.  If this work raises concerns, you really ought to consider some basic site investigation to get comfort over foul and rainwater drainage solutions and costs.

 

4 hours ago, Cauk said:

I'll try water and power companies again this week, speak with the vendor about access/trenches and also try Clancy D. 

I think you're doing all the right things, including speaking with the vendor to get their documentation and assistance.

 

Fingers crossed you make some progress

[Cauk]

On 18/04/2021 at 22:48, Phaedrus said:

I can imagine it's tremendously exciting to feel your self-build dream is about to be realised.  However, I'm a bit puzzled by you submitting an offer before completing your due diligence.  What response have you had to your offer?  Are you able to exit with dignity if your further investigations show that the purchase/project isn't viable?

 

A symptom of the environment rather than my normal approach; plots in this area are rare. This was listed and went straight to offers, of which they received ~40. Offer has been accepted and we are looking into everything while we await the searches, etc. If it isn't viable, we haven't paid anything (other than some searches). Viability is also based on a longer term view - we've been looking at both plots and houses for a long time and plan to stay for 10+ years. If we need to sit on it a while before commencing works, that is also an option.

 

On 18/04/2021 at 22:48, Phaedrus said:

I would not take much reassurance from the neighbours' arrangements as what was once common is no longer acceptable (e.g. septic tank to ditch).  There is a hierarchy of options with connection to mains sewerage being preferred.  You have to show that this is completely infeasible before going to an off-mains system.  It would appear that someone has done some work to specify a package treatment works.  Look into what this would discharge to and get some assurance of feasibility by looking into the soils, groundwater level and depth to bedrock.  If this work raises concerns, you really ought to consider some basic site investigation to get comfort over foul and rainwater drainage solutions and costs.

 

Someone might have, or maybe they've just assumed something too  I'm checking into whether any proper checks have been done and if not will make my own. There is no mains sewer within miles, so it will have to be a private system. If that isn't possible it feeds back into the point of viability; my poops need somewhere to go!