Meter tails - colour rules

[Triassic]

I'm in the middle of moving the incoming supply out of the, soon to be demolished, house into an outbuilding. The plan is, we will have a new wiring system all to the latest Regs and all in the new colours, rather than the mix we have at the moment. 

 

As part of the move I've got the DNO booked to move the incoming supply and my current electricity supplier to move the meters.

 

The one thing that bugs me is that the meter tails are the old colour. Is it permissible to over tape the tails to the new colour or will they have to be replaced.

 

Edited February 23, 2017 by Triassic

[Nickfromwales]

A sparky will swap those out in a wink of an eye. . Just have them to hand when fitting the CU.  

[Triassic]

  On 23/02/2017 at 10:59, Nickfromwales said:

A sparky will swap those out in a wink of an eye. . Just have them to hand when fitting the CU.  

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Which sparky is responsible, the DNO, the meter owner or me?

[Steptoe]

Have you an isolator fitted,?

If not get your electrician to fit one, and leave the tails from it to connect into the meter, the meter guy will then use the new tails. 

[Nickfromwales]

  On 23/02/2017 at 12:46, Triassic said:

Which sparky is responsible, the DNO, the meter owner or me?

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Tbh, if you ask the dno they'll change them. They should change them regardless tbph, as they'll not be to the new standard, so if you ask ( with tea and biscuits in hand ) they will usually do them free. 

Just had 3 separate supplies and Western Power guys were excellent. 

[Onoff]

Here the ORIGINAL, up front RCD (hanging down) had gone u/s. Using it as a temporary isolator I fitted a permanent Wylex REC2 along with the new RCD. 

 

The blue/brown is heat shrink not tape. 

 

 

Thus no visit from the seal fairy required. The meter monkey just nenewed the tails from head to meter then used the supplied tails from the REC2.

 

 (Garibaldis and chocolate Hobnobs usually work).

 

 

[ProDave]

I would have thought in the process of the move, the DNO would fit new coloured tails between the head and the meter. Make sure the electrician fits new coloured tails from the CU ready to connect to the meter.

 

The change of colours bugged my on our present house. When I started wiring it, you could only buy red/black. By the time I finished wiring it, you could only buy brown/blue, so it's a mix if the two, with the obligatory "2 colours sticker"

 

I hope you get a better "meter monkey" than my neighbour got. Spot the error.

 

 

[Jeremy Harris]

Why's he labelled the tails the wrong way, and are those tails double insulated?

 

When I got wind of harmonisation and the colour change I went and bought a couple of reels of the old cable.  Still have it in the loft.  Not saying I'd use it, but it might be handy for anyone doing work on an older house who may not want to be too obvious that the work was done after the change...........

[Steptoe]

  On 23/02/2017 at 18:50, JSHarris said:

Why's he labelled the tails the wrong way, and are those tails double insulated?

 

When I got wind of harmonisation and the colour change I went and bought a couple of reels of the old cable.  Still have it in the loft.  Not saying I'd use it, but it might be handy for anyone doing work on an older house who may not want to be too obvious that the work was done after the change...........

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apart from the fact the work wouldnt be compliant,

and thus a notice of deviation would be required, for which there would be no justification .

 

[ProDave]

  On 23/02/2017 at 18:50, JSHarris said:

Why's he labelled the tails the wrong way, and are those tails double insulated?

 

When I got wind of harmonisation and the colour change I went and bought a couple of reels of the old cable.  Still have it in the loft.  Not saying I'd use it, but it might be handy for anyone doing work on an older house who may not want to be too obvious that the work was done after the change...........

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That's the "fault" he labelled the tails backwards.  Yes they are double insulated, the DNO up here often uses tails where both the inner core and the sheath are coloured according to function.

 

It's a well known fact that you used to be able to sell red/black cable on ebay for more than the price of new cable. I tried it once, I had some 10 metre lengths of 2.5mm red/black t&e that I pulled out of a rewire, and indeed they sold for more than the cost of new cable.
 

[Onoff]

  On 23/02/2017 at 18:50, JSHarris said:

Why's he labelled the tails the wrong way, and are those tails double insulated?

 

When I got wind of harmonisation and the colour change I went and bought a couple of reels of the old cable.  Still have it in the loft.  Not saying I'd use it, but it might be handy for anyone doing work on an older house who may not want to be too obvious that the work was done after the change...........

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Plasticizer / old cable? A philosopher once said.....

 

[Jeremy Harris]

  On 23/02/2017 at 19:35, ProDave said:

That's the "fault" he labelled the tails backwards.  Yes they are double insulated, the DNO up here often uses tails where both the inner core and the sheath are coloured according to function.

 

It's a well known fact that you used to be able to sell red/black cable on ebay for more than the price of new cable. I tried it once, I had some 10 metre lengths of 2.5mm red/black t&e that I pulled out of a rewire, and indeed they sold for more than the cost of new cable.
 

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I like the idea of using double insulated tails with the outer the same colour as the inner; it's always puzzled me why most of the stuff available uses a grey outer and then needs a label or colour coded sleeve to be added.

 

I should have put the reels of old cable up on ebay, as I've never had either a reason or desire use it in all the years I've had it sat here; it was an impulse buy that ended up being thwarted by the regs.  Might stick on ebay when I clear out the loft before we move, perhaps with a note that using it would be non-compliant to cover my backside.  IIRC there's at least two full reels up there, maybe three.

[Jeremy Harris]

  On 23/02/2017 at 19:38, Onoff said:

 

Plasticizer / old cable? A philosopher once said.....

 

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Good point, it may have gone hard in the 20 plus years I've had it sat in the loft.  I've not even opened the boxes to look at it.  May end up stripping it out for the copper...............

Edited February 23, 2017 by JSHarris

[Onoff]

  On 23/02/2017 at 19:49, JSHarris said:

 

 

Good point, it may have gone hard in the 20 plus years I've had it sat in the loft.  I've not even opened the boxes to look at it.  May end up stripping it out for the copper...............

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I have some half reels of white 1 or 1.5mm² T&E (red/black) here somewhere. The sheath has actually broken down to the point where you could strip it with your fingernails!

[Gone West]

  On 23/02/2017 at 19:47, JSHarris said:

 

I like the idea of using double insulated tails with the outer the same colour as the inner; it's always puzzled me why most of the stuff available uses a grey outer and then needs a label or colour coded sleeve to be added.

 

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The tails I've recently bought are double insulated with grey outer and either brown or blue inner.

[Jeremy Harris]

  On 24/02/2017 at 09:12, PeterStarck said:

The tails I've recently bought are double insulated with grey outer and either brown or blue inner.

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Same here.  For years that seems to have been standard around here; I can't ever recall having seen tails with an outer sheath the same colour as the inner sheath, which is odd, as it's such a good idea that you'd think it would have quickly superseded the grey stuff that's been around for years.

Edited February 24, 2017 by JSHarris

[Steptoe]

  On 23/02/2017 at 19:47, JSHarris said:

 

I like the idea of using double insulated tails with the outer the same colour as the inner; it's always puzzled me why most of the stuff available uses a grey outer and then needs a label or colour coded sleeve to be added.

 

I should have put the reels of old cable up on ebay, as I've never had either a reason or desire use it in all the years I've had it sat here; it was an impulse buy that ended up being thwarted by the regs.  Might stick on ebay when I clear out the loft before we move, perhaps with a note that using it would be non-compliant to cover my backside.  IIRC there's at least two full reels up there, maybe three.

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  On 24/02/2017 at 09:12, PeterStarck said:

The tails I've recently bought are double insulated with grey outer and either brown or blue inner.

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Common misconception

The tails are NOT double insulated

They are insulated and sheathed, there is a big difference.

 

Having 'common colour' tails is a fairly common thing BTW, I've even changed some old red&black common colour this week. 

[Triassic]

Still on the topic of meters, I'm filling in the form to get the incoming supply moved to its new location. On the DNOs web site it says they can move the meters, I thought it was the meter company who moved the meters? Also we have two meters, a regular and an E7 meter. No doubt if I contact the electricity supplier they will want to fit a smart meter. So is it smart enough to do both regular and E7 or will I still need two meters?

[Steptoe]

Even 'normal' Meters these days can be fitted dual rate.

Try and not have a smart meter fitted, 

[Jeremy Harris]

I've had the DNO move a meter in our current house, when they replaced the incomer a few years ago.  My understanding is that there is some sort of agreement between them and suppliers to allow this.  There's also an agreement to allow meters to transfer from one supplier to another.

[Triassic]

  On 24/02/2017 at 09:46, Steptoe said:

Try and not have a smart meter fitted, 

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I know what you mean. The smart meter fitted in my last home and lasted six months before the smart bit packed up, so it was back to the meter reader visiting every six months.

[Jeremy Harris]

  On 24/02/2017 at 09:12, PeterStarck said:

The tails I've recently bought are double insulated with grey outer and either brown or blue inner.

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Thought I'd have a look around to see how common double insulated tails with the right outer sheath colour are, and how easy they are to buy.  The quick answer is, not that easy!.  The usual online places, like TLC: https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Cable_Index/Tails_Meter_New/index.html , Screwfix: http://www.screwfix.com/p/prysmian-meter-tails-1-core-grey-25mm-x-1m-reel-double-insulated-pack-of-3/95832 Quickbit: https://quickbit.co.uk/meter-tails-double-insulated-cable , Discount Electrical: http://www.discount-electrical.co.uk/section.php/108752/1/6181y-double-insulated-meter-tails  etc, that I've used in the past, all only seem to stock tails with the grey outer sheath, but City Electrical Factors seem to stock double insulated tails with blue or brown outer sheath, which may be of help to anyone looking for this stuff: https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/categories/cables-and-accessories-double-insulated-tails-6181y .  My experience with them locally has been that their prices were a bit high when I got a price for all our cable, fittings etc, plus you need a trade account to buy from them (not a problem, I found, they seemed happy enough to let me have one for a self-build).

Edited February 24, 2017 by JSHarris

[ProDave]

  On 24/02/2017 at 09:42, Triassic said:

Still on the topic of meters, I'm filling in the form to get the incoming supply moved to its new location. On the DNOs web site it says they can move the meters, I thought it was the meter company who moved the meters? Also we have two meters, a regular and an E7 meter. No doubt if I contact the electricity supplier they will want to fit a smart meter. So is it smart enough to do both regular and E7 or will I still need two meters?

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It's a grey area. On a new supply one man will install the supply, then a second person will install the meter (often not even on the same day)

 

Last supply move I did (temporary building supply moved into the finished house) we were told one man would move the supply in the morning and a second man would be along to move the meter in the afternoon. But the first man moved the meter as well and I had it all connected up tested and working before the second man eventually arrived. He cut the first man's seals, checked the connections and re sealed it again then went off for an early finish.
 

[Triassic]

I've just had a chat with the DNO local engineer, he's agreed that he will move one of the meters, it turns out the second one is redundant. He's also agreed I can dig and install the duct and he'll do the pre backfill inspection via video conference, good man! Makes the job a lot simpler.