Another graven hiller

[Matt540]

Hi all

 

been an unregistered lurker for a while but thought it was time I signed up as I’ve now reserved my plot on graven hill. 
 

it’s a 3 bed detached, very early stages but I’ve kinda had my heart set on ICF construction from an early stage due to the fact I’m planning on most/all of the build being DIY I felt like it not only gives great insulation/airtightness but importantly easy and fast for me to erect. However.... that’s not to say that my mind can’t or won’t be changed. 
 

im sure I’ll have plenty of questions in the near future but for now I have a lot of reading and planning to do. 
 

thanks

Matt

[Saul]

Hi Matt,

 

I've been looking to build at Graven Hill for a while but it seems their plot prices have all shot up like crazy. Original Price list below. I did bit on a plot on Hopcroft Avenue but was rejected. It's asking price was £72k more than it's neighbour. I think there is a conflict of interest going as Graven Hill Development Company is 100% owned by Cherwell Council. Throttling supply to drive up prices seems to go against their supposed obligations under the Government's Right to Build scheme.... but it's crazy times and people having been paying £50k above asking prices to buy houses in Beds/Bucks/Herts during the insane housing boom that has occurred in the middle of a recession in the middle of a Global Pandemic.  

 

A couple of the houses on The Street were ICF if you re-watch Episode 1 of Grand Designs. Looks like adult Lego and I guess a nice feeling to build a house with your bare hands!

 

Good luck

 

[Matt540]

Hi @Saul, know what you mean about the plot prices. I’d been looking ever since “the street” and they have definitely crept up with the prices but as you say it’s crazy times at the moment and everything is on the up. I live down the m40 towards London 40 mins from Bicester and the prices here are crazy.  Ive decided to bite the bullet and get in at the end of this phase before the next phase is released in the summer. I have no doubt we will see another incremental increase on this phase. 
 

for me planning on being very DIY It’s still worth it monetary wise to end up with something better than I could normally afford if just buying somewhere ready built. The biggest unknown and point of concern with these graven builds seems to be what they charge for the “golden brick” so that’s going to be the next hurdle I think  

[Saul]

Good luck with it and if you're doing most of the work yourself you might be able to keep some equity and have a bespoke home that you love rather than some dull new development house. 

 

The 'Golden Brick' route is something that most Architects seem to see as another way for Graven Hill to have a license to print money by having a monopoly. Again the price list showing £19k-32k originally for a 3 bed is now apparently more like £35-50k. This could be done for significantly cheaper via a private contractor.

 

The example below shows Plot price and GB prices a bit later down the line than initial price list and these are at levels that could be justified. However but using the example of Plot 376 jumping up to £215k + 50k means you're in negative equity if you build a house for say £200k given average prices for 3 beds in Bicester. (Not to mention that the first plots on the Street were £100k which I recall included foundations but could be wrong) 

 

It will be interesting to see what the prices are for the next phase and how many plots they release. I'm waiting to hear back from a Councillor from Cherwell Council who is on the Board of Directors for Graven Hill about their pricing strategy and justification for having increased them over 50% in the last 2 years. I might even do a freedom of information request regarding their release schedule as they definitely release them in batches to inflate prices.

 

I'd love to build soon but doesn't look like things are heading in the right direction...

 

best of luck with everything

[S-Neal]

Hi both, 

 

I've been long thinking of Self building and live in Bicester, so Graven Hill seems the obvious choice but it seems less feasible every time I look. there are two key questions I don't have an answer to:

 

- Why are plots SO expensive? I understand Golden Brick but it still feels inflated

- How are they controlling bedroom numbers? I don't see how they can charge based on such a thing. Surely i can have a house the same size with either 2 massive bedrooms, or 4 on the smaller side? If I add an extra wall in 5 years, do they storm round and demand an extra 50k? 

 

@Saul I would be interested to hear what you uncover!

[Saul]

6 hours ago, S-Neal said:

Hi both, 

 

I've been long thinking of Self building and live in Bicester, so Graven Hill seems the obvious choice but it seems less feasible every time I look. there are two key questions I don't have an answer to:

 

- Why are plots SO expensive? I understand Golden Brick but it still feels inflated

- How are they controlling bedroom numbers? I don't see how they can charge based on such a thing. Surely i can have a house the same size with either 2 massive bedrooms, or 4 on the smaller side? If I add an extra wall in 5 years, do they storm round and demand an extra 50k? 

 

@Saul I would be interested to hear what you uncover!

 

 

I have heard that they have had a change of sales personnel at some stage and it is clear that it is now being managed with an Accountant's mentality where maximum profit is the driving force behind the project. Any Utopian vision of a community of self-builders with creative freedom appears to be losing the battle with the site looking more and more like a traditional housing development. Kevin McCloud did say that the success of the project was dependent upon continuing the spirit of The Street but that appears to have been as hastily abandoned as the £100k plot prices.

 

The current strategy seems to be ask as much as possible whilst strictly controlling the supply and wait for that one person to bite. There are quite a few plots that are very clearly shovel ready with man holes and power outlets set up. These have not been "Sold" or "Reserved" but are also not yet showing on the site as "Coming Soon" or even "Not Yet Available". It creates the impression that Phase 1 only has three Self-Build plots left ie:

 

Plot 376 Max GIA 151m2 3/4 bed for £215k, (I actually offered £195k for this plot)

Plot 320 Max GIA 114m2 2/3 bed for £185k

Plot 321 Max GIA 114m2 2/3 bed for £185k.  

 

Despite all of this I am still struggling to find any alternative locations in the South East/West of England. It seems the only place to buy affordable land is Lincolnshire but that is far too off the beaten track for my personal needs.

 

I'll report back if I hear anything!

 

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Saul

[PeterW]

43 minutes ago, Saul said:

Despite all of this I am still struggling to find any alternative locations in the South East/West of England. It seems the only place to buy affordable land is Lincolnshire but that is far too off the beaten track for my personal needs.

 

Depends what you are looking for, and size/location/price as there is plenty up the M1 corridor within easy reach of major road and rail. 
 

I think Graven Hill is overpriced for what it is - the plots are tiny and you have no guarantees on what ends up either side of you. 

[Saul]

On 14/04/2021 at 17:55, PeterW said:

Depends what you are looking for, and size/location/price as there is plenty up the M1 corridor within easy reach of major road and rail. 
 

I think Graven Hill is overpriced for what it is - the plots are tiny and you have no guarantees on what ends up either side of you. 

 

Everything South of say Toddington seems to be incredibly expensive. I'd like to buy a plot for under £200k to build a 120sqm detached modern house with a small garden. Having no joy via PlotBrowser / Plot Finder / Rightmove / OnTheMarket et al and local Estate Agents who almost laugh down the phone when I tell them what I'm looking for. 

 

Graven Hill appears to be the only place with a drip fed supply of practical plots but yes very expensive for how small they are and I agree there is a danger of ending up with either something extremely dull or beyond whacky either side of you.

[eandg]

While some houses are ugly they're still far more interesting than an identikit volume developer house. I love the idea of having random designs, shapes and sizes in an Almere like fashion but it sounds a real pity that the development company are constraining supply in such a way that only a certain type of household can build and only a certain type of build will be possible to meet mortgage market valuation requirements. 

[jack]

Yep. Would vastly prefer a range of styles, some of which are out there and/or ugly. Much better than estates full of dull, cloned, pastiches of another era.

[Nickfromwales]

It's deffo a box of Liquorice Allsorts for sure. The one with the green roof ( looks like oxidised copper ) is a bit 'out there' too, but completely agree it's a very interesting site. You shouldn't really be looking at building in a sweet shop if you can't accept being the next random jar on the shelf.

[Moonshine]

44 minutes ago, eandg said:

I love the idea of having random designs, shapes and sizes in an Almere like fashion. 

 

6 minutes ago, jack said:

Yep. Would vastly prefer a range of styles, some of which are out there and/or ugly. Much better than estates full of dull, cloned, pastiches of another era.

 

personally i think that its all a bit of a hodge podge and too random. I would like to see streets with a particular style but individual variations / takes on that style. A contemptory house next to a mock Tudor doesn't look right. 

 

I think that Poundbury have got a lot of things right and seems much more organic than volume builders.

 

[jack]

1 hour ago, Moonshine said:

personally i think that its all a bit of a hodge podge and too random. I would like to see streets with a particular style but individual variations / takes on that style. A contemptory house next to a mock Tudor doesn't look right. 

 

Sure, but I'd rather that than nearly all developer estates. 

 

It'd be an interesting approach if you were to divide a self-build site into several zones on the basis of, eg, materials and/or general form. It might also be interesting if you were to engage a firm of architects per zone, and allow them to work with self-builders based on their individual briefs, while trying to generate a meaningful theme or tone for each zone.

 

Really hard to do properly, I expect.  

[markc]

2 minutes ago, jack said:

 

Sure, but I'd rather that than nearly all developer estates. 

 

It'd be an interesting approach if you were to divide a self-build site into several zones on the basis of, eg, materials and/or general form. It might also be interesting if you were to engage a firm of architects per zone, and allow them to work with self-builders based on their individual briefs, while trying to generate a meaningful theme or tone for each zone.

 

Really hard to do properly, I expect.  

+1 to this

[eandg]

6 hours ago, Moonshine said:

 

 

personally i think that its all a bit of a hodge podge and too random. I would like to see streets with a particular style but individual variations / takes on that style. A contemptory house next to a mock Tudor doesn't look right. 

 

I think that Poundbury have got a lot of things right and seems much more organic than volume builders.

 

 

Looks good and can see where you are coming from - there's an SME developer in south west Scotland that only does small developments in the local vernacular and whose sites I love but I'd take a streetscape like the one below before it:

 

 

 

4 hours ago, jack said:

 

Sure, but I'd rather that than nearly all developer estates. 

 

It'd be an interesting approach if you were to divide a self-build site into several zones on the basis of, eg, materials and/or general form. It might also be interesting if you were to engage a firm of architects per zone, and allow them to work with self-builders based on their individual briefs, while trying to generate a meaningful theme or tone for each zone.

 

Really hard to do properly, I expect.  

 

There's some custom build pilots that aim to do that but not sure how they're progressing (Igloo, now owned by Aviva, have a site in Plymouth which is the main one that I remember from looking before, where you could choose from shell designs by a panel of architects then choose from within approved palate of materials and configure however you liked internally). 

Edited April 15, 2021 by eandg