Tim2021 Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 I'm (self-)rebuilding a small place in Cornwall and want a walled vegetable garden. Ideally I would like to copy one from a Georgian house I know which has about 10m x 10m square walled off with single skin brick wall, no buttressing, about 1m (yard) high. I haven't found anything in building regs or Youtube about single skin garden walls, it seems everything nowadays is minimum 200m thick? Is it allowable? with added piers maybe? I want it to be official, (i.e. on the plans and approved by BC) as I would get all the VAT back. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 Any help https://www.mcrma.co.uk/pdf/Wind_guidance_document_final.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim2021 Posted March 22, 2021 Author Share Posted March 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: Any help https://www.mcrma.co.uk/pdf/Wind_guidance_document_final.pdf Thanks, I understand the issue might be wind loading. The wall I would like to copy has stood 200+ years in a very exposed location, has lime mortar and unknown footings! I'd like to copy the single skin brick style for aesthetic reasons, not just to save the cost of the extra 2,000 reclaimed handmade bricks involved. So I guess the answer is: I would need a structural engineer to show it wouldn't blow over and then BC would allow it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Tim2021 said: So I guess the answer is: I would need a structural engineer to show it wouldn't blow over and then BC would allow it? Probably best. Though there may be that things where a builder can do it under notice. As it is only a metre high, it may be exempt. https://www.pavingexpert.com/featur03 Edited March 22, 2021 by SteamyTea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim2021 Posted March 22, 2021 Author Share Posted March 22, 2021 Very helpful link. It says 450mm max for single skin but I guess that's a "guideline" rather than law and I can still use the structural engineer approach.. Thanks for your help I know exactly what to do now ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 (edited) Many garages are single skin brick but they have piers every ?? meters. In the past curved or zigzag walls have been used to aid stability and these can create sheltered areas for exotic plants or humans...but obviously increase the number of bricks needed. Edited March 22, 2021 by Temp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 @Tim2021 I’m a bit confused as to why you are wanting to involve building control, and what your thoughts are with the vat. Why would building control be interested in a garden wall, unless it is on the boundary and likely to fall on a passing pedestrian. If you are trying to get building control involved to get the vat back then what vat do you think you can claim. If your build is a renovation then I believe your vat is rated at 5% I could well be wrong, in which case your talking £50 on a £1000 wall. Is this worth the agro of involving bc. ?♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim2021 Posted March 22, 2021 Author Share Posted March 22, 2021 (edited) My understanding is that I can claim the VAT back for a "new building" on everything described in the "principle planning application"? I believe it would be considered a "new build" for VAT purposes as I propose to take the existing structure down to ground level and re-build it with 0.18W/m2K walls instead of the solid granite (c. 2.3W/m2K). It's tiny with just 5 x 7.2m footprint The idea is to include on the main planning appn. a substantial wall extending away from the house (which definitely does need PP/BC). The brick wall to enclose the vegetable area, (a small version of the classic Victorian kitchen garden) then being a "U" made of 3 x 10m lengths. I agree with you, it's only worth involving the aggro of BC if I can get the VAT back on the wall materials (20%)/contract bricklayer. Any advice gratefully received. Edited March 22, 2021 by Tim2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 The good building guide suggests such a wall should be a one brick wall, using the bricks sideways to be 215mm thick. I cannot find any specific guidance on piers. Usually they are used to build garage walls and these receive considerable support from the roof. This provides some guidance and suggests that a staggered wall is a better solution than piers. Or that to be effective piers need to be on both sides of the wall. https://www.mbhplc.co.uk/bda/Structure-Free-Standing-Walls.pdf A 1m wall does not require BC approval. However, there is considerable guidance that they should be 215mm thick. I would be worried about my liability if I did not show I tried to comply in some way. Once my wife caught a local teenager walking along the top of our garden fence. This is the kind of situation that someone will bring up if you ask an SE for advice. Looking at the above document and considering the wall is only 1m high the stagger looks like it might be an attractive solution. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 Ok cool, just check it comes under new build and not renovation or conversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 What's on the other side of the wall?? Nothing, a bank, a neighbour??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim2021 Posted March 22, 2021 Author Share Posted March 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Declan52 said: What's on the other side of the wall?? Nothing, a bank, a neighbour??? The brick wall would all be inside the cottage garden, no public anywhere near. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 3 hours ago, Tim2021 said: It's tiny with just 5 x 7.2m footprint Bigger than my place, and mine was built in 1987. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 Do you want it straight with no pillars or you don't mind?? I would put a pillar in every 10/11/12 bricks depending on how long this wall is going to be. Put a single course down then measure out and see what suits the length of the wall so all the gaps between the pillars are the same. The pillar be 2 brick long Infront and behind the main wall. It would look like the pic below with your wall running through the middle in the direction the piece of timber is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim2021 Posted March 22, 2021 Author Share Posted March 22, 2021 ? 700mm thick walls all round too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim2021 Posted March 22, 2021 Author Share Posted March 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, Declan52 said: Do you want it straight with no pillars or you don't mind?? I would put a pillar in every 10/11/12 bricks depending on how long this wall is going to be. Put a single course down then measure out and see what suits the length of the wall so all the gaps between the pillars are the same. The pillar be 2 brick long Infront and behind the main wall. It would look like the pic below with your wall running through the middle in the direction the piece of timber is. The Georgian one I'm hoping to copy has no pillars (apart from at a small gate). It's an aesthetic choice, a 200mm thick wall just looks too "heavy" for the garden it would be in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juncopartner Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 Its got nothing to do with B Regs I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Tim2021 said: The Georgian one I'm hoping to copy has no pillars (apart from at a small gate). It's an aesthetic choice, a 200mm thick wall just looks too "heavy" for the garden it would be in. A single brick wall with no pillars will wobble about in the wind. Unless you want bricks in your vegetable garden your going to need either pillars or make the wall wider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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