Unbanding a property

[vivienz]

I came across some useful information today that doesn't exactly fall into the categories of the title of this section, but I think this is the closest one.

 

The plot that we have bought has an old bungalow on it that we plan to demolish.  Because the property has been vacant for some time, North Dorset Council have re-imposed council tax on the property and no discounts are available.  Lack of occupancy and change of ownership make no difference.

 

I advised the council of the change of ownership and just received a council tax bill for the remainder of the council's financial year, to 31/3/17.  I rang the council as I wanted to be clear on a couple of minor points, in particular since demolition may take a period of time and when council tax would cease, and they put me in touch with the Valuation Office Agency.

 

In short, the VOA advised that as soon as the property becomes 'unbanded', council tax can no longer be levied.  The property becomes unbanded as soon as either the windows or roof are removed and so it is uninhabitable.  Whether or not it has utilities connected is irrelevant and it isn't necessary to wait for demolition to apply for it to be unbanded.

 

The windows part of this is very helpful for us as our property may have bats in the roof space, so demolition could take some time.  However, once we've had the electricity supply to the bungalow cut off, we can go ahead and remove the windows and escape a £1600 pa council tax charge.

 

[ProDave]

That's useful to know.

 

I am agonising over an even trickier one.

 

We are considering renting our house out and moving in to the static van on our building site. So far so good. But if we do that, then later we will stop renting it and try again to sell it.  I can't see a way to "unband" the static caravan on our plot short of physically removing it (or taking the windows out!!!!)
 

[MikeSharp01]

1 hour ago, vivienz said:

The property becomes unbanded as soon as either the windows or roof are removed and so it is uninhabitable.  Whether or not it has utilities connected is irrelevant and it isn't necessary to wait for demolition to apply for it to be unbanded.

As I understand it, and our experience of doing the same thing, is that removing the roof and / or windows may not be enough or could be more than enough. The individual officer makes the judgement, we had removed the roof tiles and much of the felt and it got through OK but only after they had 'discussed' among themselves.

[Jeremy Harris]

The problem here is that there is case law that determines some aspects of a "rateable hereditament" but not others.  I can see nothing from a quick look through the cases previously linked to on here that suggests that taking the windows out stops a house being a rateable hereditament, although removing the potable water supply does, for sure.  The problem is that individual officers make the decision, as Mike mentions, and they are rarely legally trained or aware of the complexity of case law that has modified and better defined the definitions in the Rating Act.

[Bitpipe]

38 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

As I understand it, and our experience of doing the same thing, is that removing the roof and / or windows may not be enough or could be more than enough. The individual officer makes the judgement, we had removed the roof tiles and much of the felt and it got through OK but only after they had 'discussed' among themselves.

 

55 minutes ago, ProDave said:

That's useful to know.

 

I am agonising over an even trickier one.

 

We are considering renting our house out and moving in to the static van on our building site. So far so good. But if we do that, then later we will stop renting it and try again to sell it.  I can't see a way to "unband" the static caravan on our plot short of physically removing it (or taking the windows out!!!!)
 

 

Exactly the situation we're in Dave, being charged CT at 50% for the van (so about £35 a month) and despite disconnecting it from power and water, LA can't do anything unless the Valuation Office delete it from their books.

 

In discussion with them, they sent me a generic form, none of which is really applicable as the van is water and wind tight.

 

I have a local couple interested in buying so with a bit of luck I may have got shot of it in a month or so, will still try and get the CT back if I can.

 

The van sat in our back garden for over a year before hooking it up and it was another good few months before we moved in and a few months after that, demolished the main house which is when the council took notice. However, once it's on the books, it's there until it goes or the VO delist it.

 

 

[ProDave]

My case is slghtly different. When the new house is finally finished then I don't think there will be a problem of being charged CT on the caravan. We have a planning condition stating it cannot be used for habitation after the house is complete and it will become a garden outbuilding so I would argue to the highest court in the land I am not paying council tax for something I am not allowed to live in.

 

My concern is if we rent out our old house for a period and move into the caravan and start paying council tax on that. Then later move back into the old house and try again to sell it, I can see no way to stop paying CT on the static caravan until the new house is completed. 

 

[Jeremy Harris]

Isn't one of the main problems the fact that the VoA are very slow to respond to this sort of request?  They are pretty slow when trying to make an addition to the lost, we found, so I have a feeling that any request to have a property taken off the list is going to go to the bottom of the pile.

[ProDave]

I can't see anyone complaining if they take a long time to add a new property to the list and so don't charge you council tax straight away.
 

[Jeremy Harris]

5 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I can't see anyone complaining if they take a long time to add a new property to the list and so don't charge you council tax straight away.
 

 

 

They back dated the charge to the date of the application, though, as we found when we had to pay three months back Council Tax, that we didn't know we owed!

[vivienz]

Well, I'm working on the basis that the information given was directly from the VOA and, given that the property is going to be demolished anyway, if I can get it unbanded by removing the windows, then nothing ventured, nothing gained.  If they agree, I lose the council tax, if they disagree, I have to keep on paying what I thought I would have to anyway, at least until the roof also comes off. 

 

I'll post with any progress.

[Jeremy Harris]

There is case law on this, posted in another thread here:

 

Might be worth a read, as the Council Tax still uses the basic rating valuation law that goes back many years as it's underpinning legislation.

[vivienz]

Thanks, Jeremy, that's very informative.  As there is a live electricity supply running into the bungalow, we plan to have this disconnected before removing the windows so, in theory, that would strengthen the case of the building being either unready for or capable of occupation.  However, as you say, one can never be certain so I'll give it my best shot and see what happens.