Anyone used The Floor Heating Warehouse?

[Evs]

Has anyone used this company to supply their underfloor heating systems before? I’ve just had a quote through at 22:30 at night I might add, and its almost half the price of the best quote I’ve had elsewhere. The only thing I can see that is not on there is the tile adhesive which will add about £500 on, but its still far cheaper than any other quotes I’ve had. 

 

It just seems a litte too good to be true. 

[swelliott]

Hi,

I have not bought from these before but funnily enough I’ve just had a quote from them as well. They weren’t quite half the price of other companies quotes for me, it was more like 30% cheaper than still a great saving.

 

The only issue I have with them compare to other companies is that the low-profile system has to be screwed down which is a risk I have to weigh up as I believe there are a couple of pipes in my flat that are relatively close to the surface. Other companies toilet into had double sided adhesive on the back of their trays that can be used just to stick them down. I have just created a new post asking if anyone has used contact spray adhesive to stick them down instead.

 

I’m sorry it doesn’t answer your question directly but just wanted to let you know that my quote was cheaper too  
 

They can’t design service seems to be just as good as any other companies.  Let me know how you get on.

Edited February 19, 2021 by swelliott

[Evs]

7 hours ago, swelliott said:

Hi,

I have not bought from these before but funnily enough I’ve just had a quote from them as well. They weren’t quite half the price of other companies quotes for me, it was more like 30% cheaper than still a great saving.

 

The only issue I have with them compare to other companies is that the low-profile system has to be screwed down which is a risk I have to weigh up as I believe there are a couple of pipes in my flat that are relatively close to the surface. Other companies toilet into had double sided adhesive on the back of their trays that can be used just to stick them down. I have just created a new post asking if anyone has used contact spray adhesive to stick them down instead.

 

I’m sorry it doesn’t answer your question directly but just wanted to let you know that my quote was cheaper too  
 

They can’t design service seems to be just as good as any other companies.  Let me know how you get on.

 

Hi mate, I appreciate the reply. 

 

All the other low-profile systems I’ve received quotes for have all had to be screwed down. Most say to put a 3mm adhesive underneath then screw them down with 40mm screws and insulation washers. They all wanted £250+ just for the screws and washers and I can get them on ebay for £115. Funnily they’ve all quoted me for 1600 screws & washers too... there is no way I’m installing 1600 screws. 

What are you installing them on top of? If you’re on 22mm floor boards and the low-profile panels are 20mm then if you stick to 40mm screws and don’t drive them too far into the panels then you’ll be fine for the pipes underneath as the screws won’t protrude below the floor. Or you could go down to 30-35mm screws to ensure they 100% won’t protrude below floor boards but you’d be fine either way. 

 

I’ve been looking online for any feedback or reviews of the manifolds and valves they supply. I’ve only been able to find one comment and the guy said that they were not good quality components, but thats all I’ve been able to find. I expected far more information on them considering they say they are one of the biggest suppliers of underfloor heating equipment in the UK. I’m really on the fence as to whether to bite the bullet and buy it from them. The other option I considered was buying the manifolds and valves from a different supplier and just use them for everything else as it would still work out far cheaper that way. 

 

Edit: Just seen your other topic and you’re using the trays rather than the 20mm insulated panels I got quoted for. 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Evs

[richo106]

Good Morning

 

Sorry to re-start this thread but has any body got any feedback from the floor heating warehouse at all?

 

@Evs Did you go with these in the end?

 

Many Thanks

[ruggers]

@richo106 or have any other used this company? Seems pretty quiet here but their trust pilot has good reviews. 
The main things I'd be looking for are, quality of the pipe and manifolds and do their design service recognise low temperature weather compensation.

[JohnMo]

I used them for a pump and mixer, got what I asked for quickly and at a competitive price.

 

Also used UFH1 and Outsourced Energy, my go to place is Outsourced Energy their pert-al-pert pipe is good to use, manifolds and mixers are Ivar so all good stuff and prices are good.

 

If you want to design a system just down loopcad and do it yourself. It is surprising how little pipe you need in your floor, on a well insulated house. I have less than 600m in a 192m2 floor.

[richo106]

8 hours ago, ruggers said:

@richo106 or have any other used this company? Seems pretty quiet here but their trust pilot has good reviews. 
The main things I'd be looking for are, quality of the pipe and manifolds and do their design service recognise low temperature weather compensation.

I decided to go for it and place the order Thursday and it’s all being delivered on Monday. 
 

I am more than happy to send some photos of some components if you would like me to, this is the first time I’ve ever dealt with UFH so I wouldn’t be able to comment too much on quality as had nothing to compare it too

[ruggers]

On 22/04/2023 at 11:00, JohnMo said:

I used them for a pump and mixer, got what I asked for quickly and at a competitive price.

 

Also used UFH1 and Outsourced Energy, my go to place is Outsourced Energy their pert-al-pert pipe is good to use, manifolds and mixers are Ivar so all good stuff and prices are good.

 

If you want to design a system just down loopcad and do it yourself. It is surprising how little pipe you need in your floor, on a well insulated house. I have less than 600m in a 192m2 floor.

Thanks John, is loop cad easy to pick up? I can use 2d autocad to an ok level, I've completed a full heat loss survey so have room by room heat loss with w/m2 and know my flow and return temperatures etc for full weather comp. But everyone says to just go for 100mm centres when running a low temperature system. I was considering loop cad and getting bespoke spacing that suit the w/m2 for each room and the floor finishes. The cibse heating design guide covers this.

What pipe did you use to your taps?

On 22/04/2023 at 19:36, richo106 said:

I decided to go for it and place the order Thursday and it’s all being delivered on Monday. 
 

I am more than happy to send some photos of some components if you would like me to, this is the first time I’ve ever dealt with UFH so I wouldn’t be able to comment too much on quality as had nothing to compare it too

I've also never installed any before and not sure what you can really tell by looking at them, some say a manifold is the same as the next in most situations, others claim some are really poor. Some pipe is wras approved to be used for drinking water. I'm not sure how to tell good pipe from bad or why people prefer top brands like uponor, it's certainly not something I want to skimp on if its going to be buried in screed.

[JohnMo]

The pipe I used was pert-al-pert from outsourced energy, found it easy enough to use.

 

I used this pipe for most of my plumbing. Hot/cold water is via a manifold. My cold water piping is buried below the floor insulation in the concrete slab, nice cool drinking water. Hot water is the same pipe. Once in a wet room I transitioned to copper pipe.

 

I downloaded loopcad on a free trial. Did room by room based on heat loss and floor coverings. Ended up with 300mm centres. Flow temps vary between 25 and 34 (at -9). Just run the whole lot as a single zone.

 

Once you get to low W/m2, pipe spacing doesn't make too much difference to flow temp. Heat pump generally don't produce hot water below 25 degrees, so having flow temps lower than that isn't an advantage.

 

[ruggers]

Hi John, Sorry for the late reply, thanks for the info. I'm aware we're going off the topic from the original post here so I might be better if I start a new topic or drop you a pm if you don't mind.

 

As mentioned my system (pipes & emitters) will be sized for max flow of 47.5C gas or 40C heat pump, both will give a similar MWT of 37.5C. Why is it that most heat engineers advise on going for 100mm centres if your going to run at low temperature, but the chart shows theres no need to?

 

Some suppliers have said only Pex-al-pex is wras approved and pert is best for UFH, pex for radiators and potable water. I'm sure I've seen WRAS per-al-pert. 

 

What fittings did you use on the pert pipe, do they need to match the brand of the pipe for the transition to copper?

I'm going to have a look at loop CAD, looked on youtube, is it an autodesk product or is there different version? Did you suss it out easy enough?

 

[JohnMo]

45 minutes ago, ruggers said:

Why is it that most heat engineers advise on going for 100mm centres if your going to run at low temperature, but the chart shows theres no need to?

Basically the supplier are being bone idle, they assume everyone has crap insulation. As little thought goes into the design as possible.

 

Although I know @Nickfromwales likes to use close centres, but I prefer to use wider spacing, easy to install, run on WC, it slow and stable, you will still have plenty of water in floor assuming single zone not to need a buffer for a suitable sized heat pump, on a single zone or may be ok for two zones equally sized.

 

Most heat sources will not go below 25 degs in heating mode, I still only need 25 deg flow close to zero degrees.

 

Different flow temps for gas or heat pump is strange as they are assuming you will have different delta T across the UFH depending on heat source which isn't correct. You certainly won't d.get a delta T of 20 at flow temp below about 60 from a gas boiler.

 

48 minutes ago, ruggers said:

What fittings did you use on the pert pipe

I used euro cones and euro cones to 15mm adapters.

 

Think that's the one I down loaded loopcad.

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, ruggers said:

Hi John, Sorry for the late reply, thanks for the info. I'm aware we're going off the topic from the original post here so I might be better if I start a new topic or drop you a pm if you don't mind.

 

As mentioned my system (pipes & emitters) will be sized for max flow of 47.5C gas or 40C heat pump, both will give a similar MWT of 37.5C. Why is it that most heat engineers advise on going for 100mm centres if your going to run at low temperature, but the chart shows theres no need to?

 

Some suppliers have said only Pex-al-pex is wras approved and pert is best for UFH, pex for radiators and potable water. I'm sure I've seen WRAS per-al-pert. 

 

What fittings did you use on the pert pipe, do they need to match the brand of the pipe for the transition to copper?

I'm going to have a look at loop CAD, looked on youtube, is it an autodesk product or is there different version? Did you suss it out easy enough?

 

Use Hep2o on the potable stuff? Much more forgiving to get about the structure. Use Pex for rads upstairs by all means, but using it for hot and cold water is a bit OTT / logistically problematic ( IMO ).

 

I install at 100mm o/c to maximise the volume of water in the slab. It is my preference based on the great results I've always had, and as it is a little expensive to dig the slab up and alter it, I prefer the added insurance. I'm responsible for the outcome, and am not a DIY-er btw.

 

Also, another reason is that I cool most slabs via the ASHP and am 'playing' with having a second, significantly smaller buffer that services 'cooling mode' vs the 100-120L one that would normally be advised and utilised for heating.

 

Also best to appreciate that I design a lot of my installs to have incoming air tempering too, via AHU's, so the buffer temp cannot be as low as the UFH flow temp or the AHU's will be nigh-on ineffective.

 

The advice here needs to always be apples for apples which it sometimes is not.   

[Nickfromwales]

30 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Basically the supplier are being bone idle, they assume everyone has crap insulation. As little thought goes into the design as possible.

Sad, true, and paying my kids through college!!  

[JohnMo]

1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

another reason is that I cool most slabs via the ASHP 

I will be try cooling via 300mm centres this summer, flow temp at 18 for a start, to see how it goes and should have condensation issues.  Last summer drained some water out of the floor mid summer and it was sitting at 25 degs. So 18 deg should give a cooling effect - I hope.

[JohnMo]

1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

Sad, true, and paying my kids through college!!  

You do intelligent installs, you do close spacing for given reasons, the UFH warehouses that do paperwork design are really doing sales based design, they just want to sell products, so all designs come out with a house full of pipe, every room has a thermostat and it needs a buffer.

[Nickfromwales]

52 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

I will be try cooling via 300mm centres this summer, flow temp at 18 for a start, to see how it goes and should have condensation issues.  Last summer drained some water out of the floor mid summer and it was sitting at 25 degs. So 18 deg should give a cooling effect - I hope.

Yup. At 18 you'll be miles away from issue, the reason being is you use this to prevent not cure, ergo the delta is never huge  

[ruggers]

On 30/04/2023 at 13:35, JohnMo said:

Basically the supplier are being bone idle, they assume everyone has crap insulation. As little thought goes into the design as possible

I agree with this, but most won't even do 100mm centres when I've asked it's 150mm min for a lot of them, some of them haven't heard of weather comp even in their technical department. None of them ask what floor finish I'd be having & I'm not 100% on floor finishes myself, too early at this stage, It will be a mixture of tiles with either vinyl click or kandean in some rooms. I need to understand how this affects the w/m2 output vs my room heat loss w/m2.

On 30/04/2023 at 13:35, JohnMo said:

Different flow temps for gas or heat pump is strange as they are assuming you will have different delta T across the UFH depending on heat source which isn't correct. You certainly won't d.get a delta T of 20 at flow temp below about 60 from a gas boiler.

I understand DT20 is probably not achievable at under 50°C flow on a gas boiler but at least if I size my radiators for 37.5 MWT, and it ends up a bit higher, I'm heat pump read if need be and at the cost of larger radiators, I'll be running more efficiently.

On 30/04/2023 at 13:35, JohnMo said:

 

I used euro cones and euro cones to 15mm adapters.

Was this this using 16mm pipe for the radiators and then using the 15mm eurocone to adapt them to 15mm radiator valves?

[ruggers]

On 30/04/2023 at 14:06, Nickfromwales said:

Use Hep2o on the potable stuff? Much more forgiving to get about the structure. Use Pex for rads upstairs by all means, but using it for hot and cold water is a bit OTT / logistically problematic ( IMO ). 

Is it just standard 15 or 22mm Hep2o for potable water or does it have to be barrier pipe to keep oxygen out like the heating pipes? I'd rather keep it simple as you say, It's just the plastic fittings can be bulky, I need to drop some down a block wall to the kitchen. I've used the John Guest lay flat 15mm stuff before but some people said it's crap?

On 30/04/2023 at 14:06, Nickfromwales said:

 

I install at 100mm o/c to maximise the volume of water in the slab. It is my preference based on the great results I've always had, and as it is a little expensive to dig the slab up and alter it, I prefer the added insurance. I'm responsible for the outcome, and am not a DIY-er btw.

The last thing I want is my house being too cold because I got the spacings wrong in the 50mm screed. I'm surprised that a lot of really good heat engineers who know their stuff & do detailed heat loss surveys, just go with 100mm c/c rather than custom to match the rooms loss.

 

I have two 24m2 rooms, ones a living room the others a kitchen. Living room has 1 large window and is 21w/m2, then kitchen has 2 windows and french doors which doubles the heat loss and is 48.4 w/m2. (512w vs 1157w)

[Nickfromwales]

I dislike the JG Speedfit stuff, and it was only last week where I was discussing them with a plumber and we both remarked that no merchants stock the collets which stop the fitting unscrewing itself and blowing apart! The chap behind the counter quizzed me then, as he had no idea what I was talking about......

Hep20 = push in > forget > go to pub. 👍

 

The kitchen will also have reduced m2 real estate, due to it being populated with units etc.

I'd rather be looking AT pipe than looking FOR it ;). The cost is pennies difference, in the grand scheme, and I'd just go at 100mm c's and away to go.

 

 

[ruggers]

Thanks Nick, cost of the extra floor pipe was never the issue, I just thought that adding too much pipe might make it too warm. Its one thing I've never installed so I don't know how much adjustment there is on the balancing screws. The whole floor will be open loop so plenty of mass. the 24m2 kitchen will actually be 18 after cupboards. The company mentioned in this post said to run pipes under the cupboards too, to prevent the heated floor transferring to the unheated space.

 

I've never used them JG collet fittings, only the push and twist ones. Tap water wont require oxygen barrier does it