Is this normal on a new build roof...?

[tmcb1234]

Hi,

 

On our new build house we have what I believe is referred to as a dormer in the roof - a window and accompanying structure jutting out from it. However I noticed recently a substantial draft and cold in the eaves of that room and that the room there and below will not heat above 18ºC. Checked the boiler, rads etc. and all fine. Then noticed that there is substantial gapping between the tiles and the underpinning structure either side of the window. Is this normal? I believe it isn't and may be causing the draft and the cold ceilings in the eaves storage cupboards.

 

If it isn't normal, what is the correct phrasing I should use/any advice you have to get this sorted? And is there anything else to check/mention and make sure they do? The walls also feel cold in those rooms and the room underneath it and I can definitely feel a draft. 

 

 

[tonyshouse]

There should both an insulation barrier and an airtightness layer in the construction and these should be all joined up. Sadly rare to find

 

gaps between tiles should not cause cold draughts inside the house, the air tightness barrier should stop those. Insulation is generally poor for dormer windows and there are lots of places where it needs to be all joined up

 

Are your eaves cupboards inside or outside the insulation barrier? 

[joe90]

The outer structure of any roof (including dormers) needs to be water tight but not draught proof and air movement keeps timber from rotting etc. You’re insulation/draught proofing should exists on the inner section sounds like this was not done properly.

[tmcb1234]

4 minutes ago, tonyshouse said:

There should both an insulation barrier and an airtightness layer in the construction and these should be all joined up. Sadly rare to find

 

gaps between tiles should not cause cold draughts inside the house, the air tightness barrier should stop those. Insulation is generally poor for dormer windows and there are lots of places where it needs to be all joined up

 

Are your eaves cupboards inside or outside the insulation barrier? 

Good question on the eaves cupboards I am not sure - they are built into the roof structure but the roof of those feels cold. The only insulation I could see in the loft is that on same level as the loft hatch there doesn't appear to be any on the timbers. Here's the loft itself - appears to be a breathable membrane. This was taken a few months ago. It is baffling to work out where these drafts and the cold is coming from. the ceiling in the room underneath the main bedroom was 10C today. Heating is on full blast with maximum rad temperatures and the room doesn't get above 18ºC. 

[AliG]

That looks pretty normal. The insulation should ideally be 3-400mm deep. IT is what is known as a cold loft. The insulation is at ceiling level and then it is cold above that.

 

Was the house built by a developer? Have you spoken to them about it?

 

If you have rooms and storage in the eaves then it will have to be insulated at the rafter level, i.e. up close to the membrane that you can see here.

 

Can you tell how thick the roof in these areas is? If it has PIR (Solid foam type insulation) I would expect the insulation to be 150-200mm thick and the roof to be 200-300mm thick in total. Can you see how the roof has been insulated in the eaves spaces?

 

You might have a few issues -

 

1. The roof is not properly insulated in the areas where there are rooms in the roof. I would also be suspicious of how well insulated the dormer itself is. The walls of that dormer again would need to be at least 150m thick to be well insulated, the roof of it also. Is there much wall either side of the windows on the inside, you could estimate how much insulation there is from that.

 

2. If you have insulation at roof level then things need to be air tight below it otherwise the insulation is not going to work if cold outside air is blowing below it. In the eaves storage cupboards the roof of them should be sealed somehow to the insulation. It should be taped or have some kind of air tightness covering.

 

3. Cold air is presumably getting into the ceiling if it is sitting at 10C below another heated room. It will be trickier to figure out where this is coming from as you don't have access. Are there any spotlights in the ceiling. If so pull one down and see if you feel a draught. You will need a bit of a breeze outside. A cold loft like you have may be ventilated at the eaves. That is fine as it is above the insulation. But if this ventilation is in place at the eaves where there is a room above it then it would be ventilating your ceiling instead.

 

4. Can you see the wall of this room from up in the loft? The loft is effectively outside space so the room should have insulation on its wall facing the loft as they are effectively exterior walls. Similarly depending on how the roof is insulated the walls facing these space could need to be insulated.

 

Pictures of the inside of the dormer, the eaves spaces and the loft facing this room would help.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by AliG

[tonyshouse]

Bit untidy but typical I am afraid 

[Temp]

47 minutes ago, tmcb1234 said:

However I noticed recently a substantial draft and cold in the eaves of that room

 

I wouldn't be surprised if there was  no insulation or badly fitted insulation in the vertical stud walls of the room in the roof. Thus the ventilated eaves are just plasterboard away from the room.

 

I doubt there is any access to inspect this area. Might be worth drilling a few holes and using a USB endoscope camera?

[AliG]

Just looking again at the picture. Is there less snow on the roof above the room in the roof? That suggests that it is not well insulated compared to the area with a loft.

 

 

[tmcb1234]

So that loft is above the master bedroom too at the top. essentially there is a loft hatch above the bedroom and the bedroom also has the dormer and the eaves storage. beneath that one of the rooms has a draught and very cold ceiling bu the other does not. Seem to have had an easterly wind and those rooms are east/south-east facing so that may be impacting it. We noticed that there was less snow on our roofs than other houses on the estate so may be contributory factor. However we notice the walls themselves on the floor below are also cold. Really keen to see if they have insulated at all in any of these areas but accessing walls/dormer/eaves may be hard so any tips welcome!

[AliG]

If the ceiling below the loft is warm and the ceiling below the master bedroom is not, then that is almost certainly due to cold air getting into the ceiling below the master bedroom. This will also make it hard to heat the master bedroom as it will come up through the floor. Are there ventilation grills in the eaves hat you can see from outside>

 

You said there are eaves storage cupboards, if the inside of these is not plasterboard can you go in there and take a picture of the underside of the roof and the wall between the cupboard and the the bedroom as then we might be able to tell you what kind of insulation is in there. Also if those storage cupboards are next to the dormer then a picture of that from inside the cupboard.

 

 

[PeterW]

Looks like a standard glass fibre lift on dormer. They are barely insulated and I think it’s probably not sealed properly and will be causing  some of your issues. 

[tmcb1234]

Is there anything I can do as a quick fix for this do we think until the builders come? I used a temperature gun and the eaves ceiling walls are 2-3ºC as is the floor and I can feel the draft. Cannot see anything else due to the plasterwork and painting - any tips to help this? Ideally something I can just put against the ceiling walls/affix temporarily in the eaves and the floor to insulate them...?

[AliG]

It is going to be pretty hard to insulate the area without opening them up. Sounds like there might be no insulation in there if it is that cold, or they have accidentally ventilated the whole space so it is filling up with cold air from outside below the insulation.

 

The one quick fix is If there is a strong draught in the storage area you could tape up the cupboard doors which will stop cold air getting into the room. Hard to stick insulation temporarily to the outside of a wall or ceiling and not worth it if is going to get properly fixed.

 

Without drilling holes into walls you can remove light fittings or sockets and fell for draughts behind them and look for insulation. there must be some kind of lights in the room below the master bedroom, if you remove these you will be able to feel if there is cold air blowing through the ceiling. I would remove sockets in the master bedroom to ascertain what kind of insulation if any is in the walls.

 

I have a wifi inspection camera, £30 from Amazon, but you still need to cut holes in the plasterboard if you want to see what is going on unless there are holes already there you can pass it through an opening already there.

 

 

[MikeGrahamT21]

New build house, leave well alone and log with the builder, if you start messing they will use it as their get out, this needs properly sorting and it will likely be a big job. Luckily the weather is going to warm up a lot from tomorrow so shouldn’t be as unbearable while you wait.

 

also consider enlisting a snagging firm (snag sure is one which comes to mind) to do a full survey of your building. They can help getting the house builders to resolve issues.

 

If you absolutely can’t cope any longer, get some really thick curtains and try and hang them around that window

Edited February 14, 2021 by MikeGrahamT21

[TonyT]

On 13/02/2021 at 18:33, tmcb1234 said:

Hi,

 

On our new build house we have what I believe is referred to as a dormer in the roof - a window and accompanying structure jutting out from it. However I noticed recently a substantial draft and cold in the eaves of that room and that the room there and below will not heat above 18ºC. Checked the boiler, rads etc. and all fine. Then noticed that there is substantial gapping between the tiles and the underpinning structure either side of the window. Is this normal? I believe it isn't and may be causing the draft and the cold ceilings in the eaves storage cupboards.

 

If it isn't normal, what is the correct phrasing I should use/any advice you have to get this sorted? And is there anything else to check/mention and make sure they do? The walls also feel cold in those rooms and the room underneath it and I can definitely feel a draft. 

 

 

When was the new build house completed?

people say new build but can be years old 

just to understand if defect period is still. In place.