William Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 Hi I have joined because of this very informative forum. My neighbour built a single storey garden studio at the end of his garden to his terraced house about ten years ago. He carried out this building with a Certificate of Lawfulness. Last year he converted the roof space of his main house and created a dormer window which projects out beyond the roof slope, creating as additional volume build of about 40 cubic metres. He did not apply for planning permission nor did he apply for a Certificate of Lawfulness. He maintains his roof space and dormer window complies with Permitted Development Rights. My query is this. Having made use of his permitted development rights for the the garden studio, does he in fact have the benefit of PD again for the roof conversation with the Dormer Window. I would really welcome your views and opinions on this as I would like to challenge the validity of his dormer window. If the dormer window is legal, it would mean I can do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 You do not need planning permission for dormers on the rear or side of a property, it needs to abide by building regulations however. I am not up to speed on permitted development regarding garden buildings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 10 minutes ago, William said: If the dormer window is legal, it would mean I can do the same. Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 amazing what monstrosities can be achieved with permitted dev https://www.molevalley.gov.uk/CausewayDocList/DocServlet?ref=MO/2012/1612&docid=435467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 25 minutes ago, Dave Jones said: amazing what monstrosities can be achieved with permitted dev https://www.molevalley.gov.uk/CausewayDocList/DocServlet?ref=MO/2012/1612&docid=435467 That's naughty. Mole Valley seem to have stolen a doc from the Membership Area of Planning Jungle and stuck it on their own website. First para of doc: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 12 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: That's naughty. Mole Valley seem to have stolen a doc from the Membership Area of Planning Jungle and stuck it on their own website. First para of doc: all property is theft so they stole it!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 8 minutes ago, Dave Jones said: all property is theft so they stole it!!!! It was taken from the private area of a paid-for service that relies on the membership income to pay for the costs of the service, so I think "stole" is reasonable. If it was my service I would be issuing a sizeable invoice then taking them to court. F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 9 hours ago, William said: ... Having made use of his permitted development rights for the the garden studio, does he in fact have the benefit of PD again for the roof conversation with the Dormer Window. ... Firstly, welcome. Your question is one of compliance with the regulations. Locally ( the Wild Wild Lancastrian North) compliance is called Enforcement. Talk to your local Enforcement (Compliance) Officer. Please remember we are not legal experts here, we are merely interested (nosey) reasonably well- informed busybodies. I say that because I would not want you to embark on a project just because we seem to be in favour of an argument you advance. Give 'em a ring. Whats to lose? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Posted February 9, 2021 Author Share Posted February 9, 2021 (edited) Hi Everyone, Many thanks indeed for your interesting responses. From what I can gather so far, there appears to be no definitive answer. I agree, before I embark on a similar build project I should verify either the local planning authority for compliance. That is good guidance and I am truly grateful. Stay safe everyone and I will continue to enjoy the very information exchanges here on buildhub. William Edited February 9, 2021 by William Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 On 08/02/2021 at 23:14, William said: Hi I have joined because of this very informative forum. My neighbour built a single storey garden studio at the end of his garden to his terraced house about ten years ago. He carried out this building with a Certificate of Lawfulness. Last year he converted the roof space of his main house and created a dormer window which projects out beyond the roof slope, creating as additional volume build of about 40 cubic metres. He did not apply for planning permission nor did he apply for a Certificate of Lawfulness. He maintains his roof space and dormer window complies with Permitted Development Rights. My query is this. Having made use of his permitted development rights for the the garden studio, does he in fact have the benefit of PD again for the roof conversation with the Dormer Window. I would really welcome your views and opinions on this as I would like to challenge the validity of his dormer window. If the dormer window is legal, it would mean I can do the same. It all sounds fine to me, or rather nothing you have mentioned definitly needs planning permission. There is a guide here you should read before concluding that your own project would be covered by permitted development.. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/permitted-development-rights-for-householders-technical-guidance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDamo Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 On 08/02/2021 at 23:14, William said: Hi I have joined because of this very informative forum. My neighbour built a single storey garden studio at the end of his garden to his terraced house about ten years ago. He carried out this building with a Certificate of Lawfulness. Last year he converted the roof space of his main house and created a dormer window which projects out beyond the roof slope, creating as additional volume build of about 40 cubic metres. He did not apply for planning permission nor did he apply for a Certificate of Lawfulness. He maintains his roof space and dormer window complies with Permitted Development Rights. My query is this. Having made use of his permitted development rights for the the garden studio, does he in fact have the benefit of PD again for the roof conversation with the Dormer Window. I would really welcome your views and opinions on this as I would like to challenge the validity of his dormer window. If the dormer window is legal, it would mean I can do the same. PD is split into various use classes, i.e. extensions, loft conversions, outbuildings, etc... You are not allocated a certain percentage before requiring formal Planning. Applicants can choose to obtain a CoL should they require confirmation from the LPA works are PD. This is not mandatory. Obtaining the relevant approvals/confirmations is always better and easier than having to worry about if/when you come to sell. The PD rules for outbuildings are here... https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/43/outbuildings The PD rules for loft conversions/extensions is here... https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/36/loft_conversion Note these rules and guidance only relate to Planning and does not exempt you from Building Regulations. Some outbuildings are exempt from BR’s (check the Planning Portal website) and loft conversions/extensions will require BR’s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDamo Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 On 08/02/2021 at 23:23, joe90 said: You do not need planning permission for dormers on the rear or side of a property, You would if there’s an Article 4 Direction, the volume uplift has already been used up, the property is in a designated area or the side elevation may be the principal elevation which fronts a highway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshleyH Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 (edited) Good evening, I'm after some guidance if possible on permitted developments for outbuilding, class E I believe. I am going to build a 5m x 4m wooden outbuilding 1m in from each side of my boundary fence line. The garden to my rear is around 1m higher than my garden with a retaining wall built on that back to support this and therefore the fence is 1.8m higher on top on the rear neighbours garden. Would the 2.5m high rule apply from point A on my photo or point B as the highest land adjacent to my ground is effectively point B with the rear garden and ground? Not that I want to build massively higher but id be interest at which point the 2.5m adjacent land would be taken from Thanks in advance. You can make out the original land an adjacent land behind the property into mine from the photos below before the retaining wall was built. Thanks. Edited August 10, 2023 by AshleyH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortarThePoint Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 Permitted development is a crazy system in that you're allowed to do something but expected to check anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 37 minutes ago, MortarThePoint said: Permitted development is a crazy system in that you're allowed to do something but expected to check anyway. Not always, I have found that you only need to check if it’s ambiguous. On 10/08/2023 at 17:39, AshleyH said: I'm after some guidance if possible on permitted developments for outbuilding, class E From the planning portal “you measure from the highest land adjacent to the outbuilding”, however in your case it appears your building away from, not on top of the retaining wall so I think you will be limited to heights from the highest piece of ground it actually sits on. So I would say “A”. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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