"Slight" Increase in Pitch Roof - Planning

[hmpmarketing]

Hey all,

 

I was wondering if a "slight" change in roof pitch for my approved garage, would I require a new planning app or an amendment?

 

I was thinking in going from 22°  to 32° to get a max 2.3m height from 1.51m as per my approved plans, and use that space for my bass practice room

 

 

Thanks for your thoughts

Edited February 6, 2017 by hmpmarketing

[AliG]

I found this guidance for non material amendments. I'm no expert I just Googled -

 

• There would be no alteration to the application site boundary and the proposal would be located within it (red line boundary).
• The amendment would not conflict with development plan policies or other Government guidance.
• There would be no conflict with any conditions on the planning permission.
• The proposal would not exacerbate concerns raised by third parties at original planning application stage.
• The approved footprint/siting of the building will not be moved in any direction by more than one metre.
• The proposal would not result in an extension to development already approved.
• The height/volume of the building or extension would not be increased.
• A reduction in the height/volume/size of the building/extension.
• The amendments must not result in a fundamental change in the design of the building.
• Does not amount to new works or elements not considered by any environmental statement submitted with the application.
• Amendments to windows/doors/openings that will not have any overlooking impact on neighbouring properties.

 

As it's a height increase it may be a minor material amendment, however, assuming that the garage is lower than the house they may consider it non material.

 

If I was you, I would apply for a NMA and see what they say. You could also just call up and ask depending on how helpful they are.

 

If they say it is material then you have to make a variation or removal of condition application which is closer to a new application although has a lower fee.

 

 

[TerryE]

You are in the lap of the gods because there is no national definition of what constitutes non-materiality.  For example we put in an NMA to change the design of our front door (which can't be seen from the public highway).  It got rejected because it was a change to the principle elevation.  When I pointed out to the planner that my application had explained that the front door wasn't visible from the road, his response was that this didn't matter because callers to the house would notice that the elevation was different to the elevations approved in our application!!

 

So it depends on your LPA but if your garage is in front of the property or this change impacts the site-lines of any neighbours then the planners might still insist on your submitting a minor material amendment. 

 

If your LPA allows people to talk to planners the maybe a quick phone call will help resolve the issue, but if they insist on pre-planning advice then perhaps the best route would be just to submit the NMA and talk to the planner once allocated.  She or he might then advise you to amend the submission to make it a MMA.  (That's assuming that the you can find out who has been allocated as case officer.  This is what we planned to do with our NMA, but we only found out the name of the case officer when we received the rejection.)

[PeterW]

1 hour ago, TerryE said:

You are in the lap of the gods because there is no national definition of what constitutes non-materiality

 

I know what @TerryE means here ..!! I applied for NMA, and got away with :

 

- remove one dormer, replace 2 large velux

- replace French doors with chimney and windows 

- add 4 new velux windows

- move 3 large dormers back into the roof - effectively changing the frontage of the house

- add an ASHP

 

All of this was under a single NMA and went through with one conversation with a planner. 

 

Mate down the road wanted to change two sets of patio doors to a single bifold and was told to reapply as it wasn't non material ...!

[Trw144]

I had similar on my last place...

 

Red brick house  to blue bricks, render, and cladding

 

3 windows to patio doors

 

3 velux windows added

 

and all under non material amendment 

[hmpmarketing]

Thank you very much for your feedback guys!

 

I am having a word today with case officer, all of the applications I have put in before for my site have always gone to him, so lets see what he says!

[TerryE]

The secret here is that if you do have one case officer allocated to your application and keep her or him onside by feeling that you are fully keeping the panning department in the picture and not pulling a fast one then the comfort level is a lot higher and you will get a lot more going through on the nod. 

[hmpmarketing]

2 minutes ago, TerryE said:

The secret here is that if you do have one case officer allocated to your application and keep her or him onside by feeling that you are fully keeping the panning department in the picture and not pulling a fast one then the comfort level is a lot higher and you will get a lot more going through on the nod. 

 

You are completely correct and this is what I have always tried to do. As an example, I have a S106 agreement and right before the start of works, I contacted him to make sure they were aware of it and to issue the invoice so I could proceed with the payment. Over 10 days have passed and no invoice yet :-) emailed again and they apologised for the delay and would get it done asap...and still waiting...

[hmpmarketing]

11 hours ago, TerryE said:

So it depends on your LPA but if your garage is in front of the property or this change impacts the site-lines of any neighbours then the planners might still insist on your submitting a minor material amendment. 

 

 

Here is the site layout FYI

 

Edited February 7, 2017 by hmpmarketing

[AliG]

With the garage so near to the boundary I would think that it is a material change to your neighbour.

 

This will be particularly true if they objected before due to the garage.

[TerryE]

Yup, I agree with @AliG.  I don't think that you'll get way with this as an NMA.  Your garage is only 1m from your neighbours boundary, and this amendment will obscure what at the moment is a fairly open sight-line across open gardens and they will lose their view of the setting sun.  IMO, the LPA might even treat this as a material amendment.  At some point you will need to get your neighbour at No 14 onside.  One option might be to trade moving the whole garage to the NE to open up his west facing sight-line to the detriment of his N facing one. 

 

 I think that you'll need to tread carefully on this one.

[Ferdinand]

This will be interesting to see.

 

I wouldn't mention the instrumentals to the neighbours...

[Nickfromwales]

13 hours ago, PeterW said:

 

I know what @TerryE means here ..!! I applied for NMA, and got away with :

 

- remove one dormer, replace 2 large velux

- replace French doors with chimney and windows 

- add 4 new velux windows

- move 3 large dormers back into the roof - effectively changing the frontage of the house

- add an ASHP

 

All of this was under a single NMA and went through with one conversation with a planner. 

 

Mate down the road wanted to change two sets of patio doors to a single bifold and was told to reapply as it wasn't non material ...!

An inside job ?

[hmpmarketing]

So guys, spoke with the case officer.

 

His words:

I don’t consider that we can treat this as an NMA, this being because of the height increase and its position adjacent to the boundary and close to the rear of no. 14.  We would need to re-assess the impact on no. 14.

I think you’d need to re-apply for the same as before i.e. “Application for variation of conditions No. 2 & 7 imposed under planning reference BR/XXX/XX/PL relating to amended plans & by substituting existing garage for a larger garage incorporating cycle storage”.

So I will have to re-apply the same way I did to extend the garage size (from 6x6m to 8x6m). Such a shame I didn't think about it back then!

@AliG @TerryE Regarding the neighbour on number 14, he only has one obscure bathroom window facing our plot. It is a small window and from previous applications, nothing was considered to impact on them, although case officer wants to re-asses.

 

 

[Ferdinand]

If only we could apply for an NMA to the existing plot ("add one house") rather than full PP.

[TerryE]

3 hours ago, hmpmarketing said:

Regarding the neighbour on number 14, he only has one obscure bathroom window facing our plot. It is a small window and from previous applications, nothing was considered to impact on them, although case officer wants to re-asses.

 

As I thought, he's gone the full amendment route.  A good way to pre-empt any concerns from the planners is to have a word with your neighbour, and get him to write a letter of support which you can include with the application.  With a full application, he's going to be consulted anyway, so being proactive will probably go down well.