5 second groan from my UFH pump

[Brash23]

Hi,

 

Can anyone please give me some help.

 

About 6 month ago I got JG UFH fitted to my kitchen extension, its an 8 port manifold with only 7 being used. 6 are fitted with actuators and one acting as a bypass.

 

The problem is that when heat is called the actuators open up the pump starts and the boiler fires up. the boiler gets up to approx 70 degrees then the flame goes out then the temp is gradually going down, Its when the temp gets down to around 32 degrees the UFH pump makes a 5 second groan until the boiler fires up and the noise stops, then the boiler stays lite and no other groans are noticed.

 

The system has been bled, the pump and boiler delay has been tried to give the actuators time to open but to no avail, also recently the pump was changed to a grundfos UPS3 Auto as the last one bit the dust. 

 

If the radiators are on prior to the UFH being turned on the pump does not make a noise as the boiler is already running. I am not sure if the blending valve has something to do with it!! i have asked JG technical team loads of questions but again i am stuck. 

 

Other than the pump moaning at 5.30am the system wotks perfect 

 

Many Thanks 

 

John

[JFDIY]

Is there any by-pass valve or a radiator permanenly on without a TRV (thermostatic valve)

 

Might be worth trying one in a bathroom for example.

[Temp]

Can you post a photo of the manifold. 

 

1 hour ago, Brash23 said:

..when heat is called the actuators open up the pump starts and the boiler fires up

 

No noise from the pump at this stage?

 

1 hour ago, Brash23 said:

the boiler gets up to approx 70 degrees then the flame goes out then the temp is gradually going down

 

So this is the boiler reaching its max flow temperature limit and shutting down the burner. 

 

The UFH loop pump should continue to run if the room stats are still calling for heat. Does it do that?

 

1 hour ago, Brash23 said:

Its when the temp gets down to around 32 degrees the UFH pump makes a 5 second groan until the boiler fires up and the noise stops

 

On most UFH systems there is a mixer that blends boiler flow and UFH return to make the UFH Flow.  You can get some strange effects if the flow and return from boiler are connected to the wrong ports.  I would double check that first. 

 

[PeterW]

7 zones in an extension is a lot of pipe or a lot of very small zones ..! The issue you are having with the boiler is that it’s dumping 70°C water into the mixer which is possibly only wanting 40°c water, and you have one loop capable of servicing this. It’s probably got a very low flow rate too. I would take a couple of other actuators off and let them have a clear run and see if it makes a difference. If so, it’s flow. 

[Temp]

2 hours ago, Brash23 said:

About 6 month ago I got JG UFH fitted to my kitchen extension

 

2 hours ago, Brash23 said:

also recently the pump was changed to a grundfos UPS3 Auto as the last one bit the dust. 

 

6 months isn't very long for a pump. Did the previous pump also make this noise?

 

Do you know what mode the UPS3 is set in? A single press of the button and it should tell you. Instructions here..

 

 

 

 

Edited January 19, 2021 by Temp

[Brash23]

1 hour ago, Temp said:

 

 

6 months isn't very long for a pump. Did the previous pump also make this noise?

 

Do you know what mode the UPS3 is set in? A single press of the button and it should tell you. Instructions here..

 

 

 

 

Hi all 

 

the pump has been on all settings and all do the same it’s currently set on CP3 as informed via Grunfos. 
 

I took 2 actuators off and the boiler stayed lit which is perfect but when the boiler went off and the pump was still running it was making a worse nose than before! I had to turn the blending valve off to stop it 

 

 

[Temp]

Gosh its loud.

 

Double check that the flow and return from boiler to blending valve is correct.

[Brash23]

Best pictures I can take as my unit is fitted 

 

 

[Brash23]

3 minutes ago, Temp said:

Gosh its loud.

 

Double check that the flow and return from boiler to blending valve is correct.

Yes they look to be correct 

 

im stuck as it was never this load 

[dpmiller]

Is the bypass loop actually turned on?

 

[Brash23]

2 minutes ago, dpmiller said:

Is the bypass loop actually turned on?

 

Where is this situated? Could you please describe it 

[dpmiller]

the loop with the missing actuator, the white cap is a manual on-off.

[Brash23]

2 minutes ago, dpmiller said:

the loop with the missing actuator, the white cap is a manual on-off.

Yes that is open and I’ve also took off 2 other actuators as requested earlier in the thread 

 

it’s got me on the bottom 

[Brash23]

If I turn the blending valve off the pump stopped making the noise? What could cause this 

[Temp]

I noticed that the noise reduces when the mixer temperature is turned down. In that situation more water is being recycled around the floor loops and less new hot is added from the boiler.

 

Does it ever make this noise when the burner is lit? 

 

I'm wondering if the boiler pump is stopping when the burner switches off? If that is preventing water flowing to the UFH mixer and pump it might be the cause? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Brash23]

3 minutes ago, Temp said:

I noticed that the noise reduces when the mixer temperature is turned down. In that situation more water is being recycled around the floor loops and less new hot is added from the boiler.

 

Does it ever make this noise when the burner is lit? 

 

I'm wondering if the boiler pump is stopping when the burner switches off? If that is preventing water flowing to the UFH mixer and pump it might be the cause? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When the boiler is on it runs like a dream, but since I’ve took off 2 actuators that’s when the loud noise got worse when I turned the thermostats off and the boiler went off but the pump kept going. 
 

would the blending valve play a part in this being faulty maybe? 
 

[Temp]

Could be a faulty blender. Can you tell if the noise is coming from the pump or the blender? Use a length of wood as a stethesoscope?   

 

 

[Brash23]

Just now, Temp said:

Could be a faulty blender. Can you tell if the noise is coming from the pump or the blender? Use a length of wood as a stethesoscope?   

 

 

I honestly think the blending valve has something to do with it! I don’t want to put it on again in case that pump goes as well! 
 

I am waiting on a reply from grundfos about the noise the pump is making! 
 

ive done everything else! Does anyone know about blending valves being faulty?

[JFDIY]

Think your blending valve might be in the wrong way, not sure it makes a difference without a schematic or installer notes, but it spears the boiler connection to right in the middle of blending valve should go to the cold side of the manifold.

 

 

Attached photo from JG website shows the issue, all the pictures I could find show the manifold configured with pump to the left.

 

 

If you spin the mixer so the dial is pointing towards the wall it would be more as designed. ( Space permitting)

[Brash23]

3 minutes ago, JFDIY said:

Think your blending valve might be in the wrong way, not sure it makes a difference without a schematic or installer notes, but it spears the boiler connection to right in the middle of blending valve should go to the cold side of the manifold.

 

 

Attached photo from JG website shows the issue, all the pictures I could find show the manifold configured with pump to the left.

 

 

If you spin the mixer so the dial is pointing towards the wall it would be more as designed. ( Space permitting)

Thanks for this I will get an engineer round to see if this is possible! Spending more cash again it rages me ?

[Temp]

+1 Looks like original installer messed up.

 

I was just looking at this photo from their web site.  Note where the boiler flow and return connect compared to yours. On their picture the flow connects to the left hand port where as on yours it connects to the right.

 

As @JFDIY said turning the mixer so its facing the wall looks like the easiest solution but not great for access. I would ask JG Speedfit if there is another way.  Perhaps they do a "left handed" mixer valve or perhaps the insides of the mixer can be turned around?

 

The pump and manifold look ok so I don't see need to change anything there.

[Brash23]

1 minute ago, Temp said:

+1 Looks like original installer messed up.

 

I was just looking at this photo from their web site.  Note where the boiler flow and return connect compared to yours. On their picture the flow connects to the left hand port where as on yours it connects to the right.

 

As @JFDIY said turning the mixer so its facing the wall looks like the easiest solution but not great for access. I would ask JG Speedfit if there is another way.  Perhaps they do a "left handed" mixer valve or perhaps the insides of the mixer can be turned around?

 

The pump and manifold look ok so I don't see need to change anything there.

Thank god we are getting somewhere! 
i appreciate it everything guys I will try this and let yous know how I get on  ? 

[JFDIY]

Had another look and I think the valve might be ok, be good to get the pukka JG notes though.

 

How are the motorised valves configured, are they shutting before the pump has finished running?

You may be able to hold the one serving the manifold slightly open if it has a manual lever ( don't latch it as you'll make unwanted electrical contacts inside it). See if when the pump is noisy moving the lever to open the valve off its seat, stops the noise, if so the pump is being starved of incoming water .

 

[Brash23]

14 minutes ago, JFDIY said:

Had another look and I think the valve might be ok, be good to get the pukka JG notes though.

 

How are the motorised valves configured, are they shutting before the pump has finished running?

You may be able to hold the one serving the manifold slightly open if it has a manual lever ( don't latch it as you'll make unwanted electrical contacts inside it). See if when the pump is noisy moving the lever to open the valve off its seat, stops the noise, if so the pump is being starved of incoming water .

 

The seem to be shutting as the pump is running! I’ve never had an issue with the pump making a noise when I turn it off until I took 2 actuators off. 

I have just called the engineer and he is adamant that the valve is correct! 
 

it seems as if something of forcing the motor in reverse and it stops when I shut the blending valve off! 
 

Everything is pointing to a dodgy blending valve or I am clutching straws!!  

[ProDave]

16 minutes ago, Brash23 said:

Everything is pointing to a dodgy blending valve or I am clutching straws!!  

IF as others suggest, the blending valve should be at the left, then by putting yours at the right it will be ported wrong.  So it is not working because it is connected wrong.

 

What is needed is not just a pretty photograph from the internet to show how it should be, but the actual manufacturers instructions to answer beyond doubt if it is assembled correctly or not.