MortarThePoint Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 I was wondering if there is an alternative to lap jointing the wall plate, perhaps using some appropriate hardware. I'm concerned that I won't be able to keep up with the brickies as they install the wall plate. Can something like a gang nail be used? I'd really want something that covers this application in its BBA certificate, so it is considered a good job. NHBC say "joined using half-lapped joints, including at corners", but I am sure I read somewhere that propriety fixings could be used. I feel like a bodger asking the question, but feels like there should be something just as good as a lap joint and I don't mind spending up to £5 per joint as that's what a day of a chippie would probably work out as. I'd rather spend £1 - £2 though ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Cordless circular saw would do one of these joints in a min. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oz07 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 I cut all mine on a rainy Saturday morning in the garage. Hipped roof so there were 6 ext corners and a few straight joins. You'd probably find someone charge you half a day if theyre keen enough, they just to do all the joints if you give them the sizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 you dont have to keep up, you can cut them all soon as the first block is laid as you have your wall lengths at that point. if your worried leave them long where they meet gables and they easy trimmed. As others have said strap them down the same day, our chippy just ran 55mm wood screws straight into the thermolite blocks to hold them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortarThePoint Posted November 10, 2020 Author Share Posted November 10, 2020 19 minutes ago, Dave Jones said: you dont have to keep up, you can cut them all soon as the first block is laid as you have your wall lengths at that point. Should have but didn't. It's going in on Thursday and I've a busy day tomorrow. 20 minutes ago, Dave Jones said: As others have said strap them down the same day, our chippy just ran 55mm wood screws straight into the thermolite blocks to hold them. This article suggests drilling and fixing once the mortar has set: https://www.practicalarchitecture.com/blog/how-to-detail-a-wallplate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 the way they did it was, rest the straps on the newly mucked plates. Drill them into the walls. When roofers came the following week they had a paslode gun that shot twist nails and they shot all of them into the plates as they put the trusses on. The point being by screwing to the wall the plates cant bow in the meantime. Not that that matters anyway from the tolerances on the trusses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 From that article linked, this is exactly how I do it as it’s quick and simple. You can cut a half lap joint with a circlular saw and a chisel in about 2 minutes. And the full bed doesn’t need to be thick - just enough to take the unevenness out of the blockwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortarThePoint Posted November 10, 2020 Author Share Posted November 10, 2020 According to the article BS 8103-5 also advises that lap-joints should be 100mm long, twice nailed and that butt joints with proprietary fixings are also acceptable. Does anyone know of such a proprietary fixing? I would like to explore the option. I know lap joints should be possible but I'd like to consider something else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 they dont bother with any of that nonsense on site. They go along the plate and shoot 90mm nails in with a paslode. Watched them. At the end of the day if its strapped to the walls how is it ever coming off ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortarThePoint Posted November 10, 2020 Author Share Posted November 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, Dave Jones said: they dont bother with any of that nonsense on site. They go along the plate and shoot 90mm nails in with a paslode. Watched them. At the end of the day if its strapped to the walls how is it ever coming off ? They don't joint the timber at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 sorry i wasn't clear, yes standard half lap with a paslode nail through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortarThePoint Posted November 10, 2020 Author Share Posted November 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Dave Jones said: the way they did it was, rest the straps on the newly mucked plates. Drill them into the walls. When roofers came the following week they had a paslode gun that shot twist nails and they shot all of them into the plates as they put the trusses on. The point being by screwing to the wall the plates cant bow in the meantime. Not that that matters anyway from the tolerances on the trusses. OK makes sense, the strap isn't nailed to the wall plate whilst the mortar is wet, but the straps will hold it down as screwed to wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 I trench them out to save chiselling, the festool circular with rail is brilliant for this. The rail turns it into a mobile chopsaw as you can cut any angle, with a composite and depth at the same time. I made a bunch of gates using half lap as well, saved ££ against bought as there really isnt much to it. https://www.powertoolworld.co.uk/festool-769942-cross-cutting-guide-rail-fsk-420 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortarThePoint Posted November 11, 2020 Author Share Posted November 11, 2020 Well I just met with the chippie and he said he prefers to sort the lapping, anchoring and strapping of the wall plate. The brickie to leave the timber bedded down and then when the mortar has gone off he can lift the timber to cut the laps etc. He says he gets it straighter than the brickies that way. I think I prefer the idea of the brickies bedding being final rather than lifting the wall plate off again. Does the chippie's approach sound sensible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 On 10/11/2020 at 19:41, Dave Jones said: they don't bother with any of that nonsense on site. They go along the plate and shoot 90mm nails in with a paslode. Would they do that if the top course under the wall plate is solid concrete briquettes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortarThePoint Posted November 29, 2020 Author Share Posted November 29, 2020 I did the lap cuts and it ends up being pretty quick and accurate once you get a technique going. A full depth circular saw cut into each side of the timber and then a half depth cross cut on the flat of the timber. Hammer and chisel to remove the chunk and clean up. Top tip: don't bother making bits for the gables. I got carried away and made a short section for one gable by mistake ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 Yes, not difficult, it’s not as if it’s furniture making Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortarThePoint Posted November 29, 2020 Author Share Posted November 29, 2020 Just now, joe90 said: Yes, not difficult, it’s not as if it’s furniture making I got complements from the brickie so I clearly did an alright job of it. The chippie hasn't turned his nose up at it so that's good too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 if your not doing plate lap joints with a chainsaw your doing something wrong! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortarThePoint Posted March 6, 2021 Author Share Posted March 6, 2021 I had cause to do this again this week and I quite enjoy it now. The way I do it is below for anyone who is interested. In steps 1 and 2, I clamp another piece of 4x2 along side to provide more surface for the circular saw to ride on and stay square. In step 3, I clamp a speed square on to the timber and follow that, it's actually 30mm away from the cut as that is the gap between my saw's blade and edge of its base. Step 4 is just some easy clean up with a chisel. My circular saw's blade isn't quite deep enough to cut half way in steps 1 and 2 hence the way it is shown. Important to remember to adjust the blade between steps 2 and 3. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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