tanneja

Urgent staircase issue

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Hi All,

 

Long story short, doing a renovation, has been done in a strange order due to living on site during the build.  The joists are in, and upstairs stud work and fibreboard floor.

 

Our architect essentially walked off the job a while ago as he changed focus to commercial, we were past planning permission so felt we could get the rest done without further input.  In hindsight, that was a bad move on my part and should have had another expert on board and perhaps would have avoided these surprises.

 

We moved the stairs location from where it was, and now seem to have a massive headroom issue with the staircase.  We had planned for this staircase, which will arrive precisely at boundary of the upstairs hallway.  The downstairs floor to ceiling is around 2440mm.  The stairs were planned to start at the edge of the room, so the first square feature step is underneath the 2440mm ceiling area.  Then, as you step onto the second step (the first of the 3 winder), the ceiling vaults up to 5m.  I had assumed that, following the pitch line, I wouldn't fall foul of head height issues, but calling some stair builders I am discovering that the full length of the stairs that attach to the newel post are likely subject to the head height, so seems I need provision for 4 steps within the floor to ceiling area, that would require an extra 380mm of head room.

 

I'm coming to terms with needing to needing to make structural changes, but those would be immense.  We will mock up the first few steps tomorrow and have the DS over to look at, for what it is worth.

 

Does anyone have any ideas for the most cost effective remedy?

stairs.jpg

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Picture of the existing area. This staircase position is being changed to start 4 steps earlier, so would emerge upstairs a corridor space earlier, giving us a nice bathroom.

20201001_094018.jpg

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Floor to ceiling 2440, rise 204mm so stair 1 okay at headroom 2236mm

 

Stair 2 is marginal at 2032mm but just okay.

 

It's stair 3 onwards that is the issue.

 

What is the width of the stair opening? Is that measurement D 859mm?

 

How about make the stair only 800mm which is still okay with building regs so stairs 3 onwards are under the open space so okay.

 

So it's only the "slope" from stair 2 to 3 that may be an issue? but my ensuring stair 3 onwards is entirely under the open area I think it will be okay.

 

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Tell us please what's immediately above stair No. 1.

I ask because if it's a corridor maybe that can be nudged : if its a room, then maybe a cuboid shape can be built into the room to accomodate the stairway height clearance. We put a bed on top of such a 'bodge'. Kids loved it.

If on the other hand it's a load of plumbing or a window, then ..... 😕

 

PS reading Dave's reply, I think I may have misunderstood .... apologies if I have. I cant see why stair 3 is an issue ... it seems like there's plenty of clearance. Cheap glasses?

Edited by ToughButterCup
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@ProDave this is potentially genius! We have 860mm from the brick wall to the stud. If we make the width of the long going run to just 800mm, that brings the newel post entirely into the vaulted area. That would hopefully be quite convincing to the DS that head hight not an issue. I might actually sleep tonight.

 

@ToughButterCup the room above is a bedroom, so sacrificing some of that for an angled ceiling would be justifiable, however the engineering to do that now would be significant

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2 minutes ago, Oz07 said:

Kite winder?

Thanms @Oz07, the new plan is a 3 winder, but got a rude awakening when asking about the regs

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So kite winder at bottom 4,3,2 tread and is it just tread one which is protruding into the 2440 ceiling? I think you're okay

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Ok I’m not seeing the issue ..? Are you saying you need 4 steps in the same place as the square is on your plan ..? 
 

And what has the newel got to do with it ..? You measure the stair clearance from the centre line of the stairs as though there is a straight line drawn down the treads, minimum height is measured above that. 

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@PeterW that was my assumption this whole time, that the centre of the tread represented the pitch line, and that it was this line that had to pass the 2m headroom.  However I am being told that it is any point of the stair has to pass this test, so with thr newel post positioned at the transition where thr ceiling goes from regular height to vaulted, the stairs that meet at the newel post have their head clearance are judged with respect to the lower ceiling height. I have had that confirmed by MrStairs and StairBox. I am hopeful that moving the newel into the vaulted footprint by reducing the staircase width (suggested above) will mean we can make it work. 

 

That is my interpretation. 

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I would have a chat to building control and if push comes to shove chop a 45 degree angle off the bottom corner of the offending joist.

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7 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

I would have a chat to building control and if push comes to shove chop a 45 degree angle off the bottom corner of the offending joist.

Thank you @Mr Punter, that is the nuclear option, hoping conceeding on the stairway width will be enough, as chopping the joist will likely mean more paid for calcs and steels

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You don't need to chop the joist, just shave a bit from the bottom so it is at 45 degrees.

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Basically someone is taking an anal view of the regs here. If you can reduce the width by 50 odd mil to push the bottom newel back into the high ceiling zone and it passes then it should be fine the full width. Nobody is walking on the very inside of a kite winder any way. As said above chat with your bco. Explain you'd prefer a full width staircase as more comfortable but are happy to reduce width to comply if that's what they require. Put ball in their court. 

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Just to cap this off, the DS was happy with moving the newal slightly into the void.  Thank you all and especialky @ProDave for the workaround. Lesson learned for me.

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