nubbins Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 Does anyone know if I need an extractor fan in the downstairs toilet with sink and openable window? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markc Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 If you have a window that opens then fan not needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 (edited) Just think if you want to have to have that window for ablutions, from a security POV and also a practical POV. If it’s p*ssing down with rain and blowing a hoolie then you’ll not want to have the stink blown into / through the house would you? Look for a fan with an auto shutter ( do NOT use a back-draft shuttered one as they chatter and clap on windy days plus they will allow heat out / cold air in 24/7 ), one good unit is an ICON. Not somewhere to save money imho. Edited October 8, 2020 by Nickfromwales 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 I can't recommend this either. Sounds like the RAF have bought their Harriers back from the Yanks: https://www.myappliances.co.uk/Cata-E100GSTH-100mm-Silver-Glass-Bathroom-Fan-With-Humidistat-Display Looks the mutt' s nuts mind... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gav_P Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: Just think if you want to have to have that window for ablutions, from a security POV and also a practical POV. If it’s p*ssing down with rain and blowing a hoolie then you’ll not want to have the stink blown into / through the house would you? Look for a fan with an auto shutter ( do NOT use a back-draft shuttered one as they chatter and clap on windy days plus they will allow heat out / cold air in 24/7 ), one good unit is an ICON. Not somewhere to save money imho. Thanks @Nickfromwales This is exactly what happens in one of our ensuites. I’ve just ordered an Icon 15 based on your recommendation. I’ve got one of those annoying rattley flappy things on the outside too. What do you recommend to replace this with? Edited October 8, 2020 by Gav_P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 8 hours ago, Gav_P said: Thanks @Nickfromwales This is exactly what happens in one of our ensuites. I’ve just ordered an Icon 15 based on your recommendation. I’ve got one of those annoying rattley flappy things on the outside too. What do you recommend to replace this with? The timer module is a bolt on iirc, had to buy one when I bought an ICON for our WC. Alternative grille down facing and no ‘flap’ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gav_P Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: The timer module is a bolt on iirc, had to buy one when I bought an ICON for our WC. Alternative grille down facing and no ‘flap’ Yeah I had to add the timer as an option. They also have a humidity sensor module add on, didn’t get that tho. Ive ordered one of those covers too now. Ta very much ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juncopartner Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 On 08/10/2020 at 15:46, markc said: If you have a window that opens then fan not needed The approved document guidance was changed a few years ago, mechanical fans are required to all new WC installations, regardless of whether there's a window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDamo Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 When did that change as it appears the last amendment was in 2013? Guidance on the Planning Portal states... ”For toilets only, ‘purge ventilation’ (an opening window/door on an external wall) meeting the requirements specified in Appendix 2 of ‘Approved Document F - Ventilation’ can instead be used to provide ventilation if security is not an issue.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gav_P Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 2 hours ago, juncopartner said: The approved document guidance was changed a few years ago, mechanical fans are required to all new WC installations, regardless of whether there's a window. 7 minutes ago, DevilDamo said: When did that change as it appears the last amendment was in 2013? Guidance on the Planning Portal states... ”For toilets only, ‘purge ventilation’ (an opening window/door on an external wall) meeting the requirements specified in Appendix 2 of ‘Approved Document F - Ventilation’ can instead be used to provide ventilation if security is not an issue.” The key word in juncopartners post is “guidance”... meaning do what you want ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juncopartner Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 3 hours ago, Gav_P said: The key word in juncopartners post is “guidance”... meaning do what you want ? Yes its guidance but you would need some justification or alternative to satisfy B Regs I'm afraid you can't just "do what you want". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gav_P Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 48 minutes ago, juncopartner said: Yes its guidance but you would need some justification or alternative to satisfy B Regs I'm afraid you can't just "do what you want". Only if BR stipulates something definitive like ‘shall’ or ‘must’ otherwise it’s unenforceable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 23 minutes ago, Gav_P said: Only if BR stipulates something definitive like ‘shall’ or ‘must’ otherwise it’s unenforceable. So the Approved Documents provide a way of meeting the Statutory Instrument (ie the legal document) and on WCs then the rules are that in an existing building then there is a requirement for extract ventilation. Appendix F section 7:11 to 7:15 refers ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDamo Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 Where is Appendix F? Or do you mean ADF and Paragraphs 7.11-7.15? If so, paragraph 7.12a makes reference to Table 5.2a and a note under ‘Intermittent extract’ states... “Intermittent extract rates are given in Table 5.1a. For sanitary accommodation only, as an alternative, the purge ventilation provisions (windows) given in Appendix B can be used where security is not an issue” So to me that reads mechanical extract is not required if an openable window can be!?! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 13 hours ago, DevilDamo said: So to me that reads mechanical extract is not required if an openable window can be!?! None of it gives any consideration to thermal convection, eg if a window is cracked open on night latch to allow “purge ventilation”, then the likelihood is that cold air + ‘au du shat’ will be pulled into and through the dwelling. Disgusting. Fit a fan ffs. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDamo Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 I too would fit one. But as the OP’s question asked do they ‘need’ one then no, they don’t. It’s an optional but worthwhile installation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 My extractor is utter rubbish. The added pan take off I plumbed into the wc seems to do nothing either. Smells really seem to linger. The smell is supposed to go from "bottom" (?) left, to the ceiling mounted fan top right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacP Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 43 minutes ago, Onoff said: My extractor is utter rubbish. The added pan take off I plumbed into the wc seems to do nothing either. Smells really seem to linger. I was considering this too but linking it up to MVHR. If it’s ineffective I won’t bother with the extra expense/complexity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 6 minutes ago, ZacP said: I was considering this too but linking it up to MVHR. If it’s ineffective I won’t bother with the extra expense/complexity? This is the thread started by @Jeremy Harris which I then hijacked cataloguing what I did: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacP Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Yes! I assume that if it was linked to the MVHR it would have an impact on the ability to balance the system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 I think some of you need to change your diet. It is only after I have eaten something that really disagrees with me that I would ever need an extractor in the WC. When it does happen, the extractor does not help. Only time can heal the harm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 26 minutes ago, Mr Punter said: I think some of you need to change your diet. It is only after I have eaten something that really disagrees with me that I would ever need an extractor in the WC. When it does happen, the extractor does not help. Only time can heal the harm. Espera diez minutos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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