TerryE Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 OK, in the past, I have done all my plumbing in copper mostly with soldered end-feed joints and the occasional compression joint. Leak detection involved filling and pressurising the system and going around with a piece of paper towel to wipe joints and look for weeps (and I have had a couple ). We are now plumbing in HEP2O and the risk seems to be not of a weeping joint, but of the catastrophic failure of one. So I am now looking at proper pressure testing of runs before leaving them connected to the mains. This one is new to me. I can see various options: Hire a pressure tester. The trouble is that I will be commissioning the system incrementally over a couple of weeks and the weekly hire for a standard testers is ~ £50. Buy one of the same (and subsequently resell). They seem to sell on eBay for £50-80 depending on condition and frills. Do something home brew, @Onoff, you did this didn't you? I've just done a quick bit of research and Wavin "do not recommend compressed air, only a water pressure test. Water will identify any small leak, and is far safer. Use of leak detecting fluids with an air test may damage the fitting and would invalidate the guarantee." So water only. There general advice is: "First carry out a low pressure water test at 0.5 - 1 bar when the system is just demountable fittings, then a pressure test at 1.5 x the normal working pressure with a recommended minimum of 10 bar for a minimum of 45 mins." So my current plan is buy a tester on eBay and follow their general recommendation. Any general comments or advice. @Nickfromwales, I am sure that you will have some pearls of wisdom. Thanks in anticipation, guys and gals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triassic Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 (edited) You could make up a DIY temporary Tee piece fitting with a Schader valve fitter, a mains water filling point and a pressure gauge. Then you could fill the pipe work using mains water pressure, if more pressure is needed then use a foot pump via the Schader valve. Edited January 10, 2017 by Triassic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 That's a good option if you have less than the target test pressure available. @TerryE, are you doing continuous single radial runs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryE Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 16 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: are you doing continuous single radial runs? Yes, it's a radial design from a set of HEP2O manifolds. All runs are a single continuous HEP2O pipe within the fabric of the house, and to a single appliance connection (with the exception of the dishwasher which is cold-fill and T'ed of the cold tap feed in the adjacent kitchen unit). We also have the odd elbow behind the plasterboard -- for example to turn into the 15mm copper tails for the 4× mixer connections for the 3 showers and the bath. I will be pressure testing all of these well before tiling, so if any of these fail during testing, it will only be a relatively minor pain fixing / replacing. No joins or elbows in inaccessible places such as in the floor voids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 I would simply whack stop ends on the terminations and pressurise to cold mains max potential via the manifolds. Will they be in at the point of initial testing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryE Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 2 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: I would simply whack stop ends on the terminations and pressurise to cold mains max potential via the manifolds. Thanks Nick -- that's the way I'd have done it in the past, or at least turn the mains on for 10 secs say, enough to bring the loop(s) up to mains pressure then off, so that if I did an immediate leak then at worst I'd end up dumping only a little water into the room. The HEP2O brass manifolds have per circuit isolation valves, so I can bring the appropriate manifold up to mains pressure and only open one radial circuit at a time to test it. One issue that we have here is that the mains pressure isn't brilliant because it's pretty flat where we live in Northamptonshire. It used to under 2 bar when the water was coming from a water tower in the next village (right next to @Vijay's plot), but it is a lot better since the put in a supplementary booster pump about 5 years back ; it's typically 2-3 bar at quite times, now. However, I've got no guarantee that they wont upgrade the pumps in future so I've rather test the system to a min 5 bar, to give us some headroom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryE Posted January 22, 2017 Author Share Posted January 22, 2017 OK, another go around the merry-go-round on this one. Where we live is flat and the mains is pumped to around 3 bar IIRC. I have one particular pair of elbows that are behind a corner cupboard in our kitchen and the new worktop is going in on the 30th, so I want to pressure test these to at least 5 bar before then, because if either fails after the worktop is in then it's going to be a total PITA. As far as I can see, the Rothenburger RP 30s are the standard entry piece of kit for doing this, but they cost about £140-180 new. Has anyone used any of the cheap Chinese clones that you can pick up for down to £40? OK, I accept that the main risk is that the gauge is crap and I end up over-pressuring the system, but I thought that the simplest way of preventing this is to add a second pressure gauge at £15 or so. Any comments or suggestions? @Nickfromwales @Onoff or anyone got pearls of wisdom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 On 10 January 2017 at 12:37, Triassic said: You could make up a DIY temporary Tee piece fitting with a Schader valve fitter, a mains water filling point and a pressure gauge. Then you could fill the pipe work using mains water pressure, if more pressure is needed then use a foot pump via the Schader valve. This is all the solution you need . Water so you'll see leaks straight away and just top it up with air to get your target pressure. Would it be better to bend copper in that corner and have straight connectors outboard ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 I'll gladly post you my home brew, Welsh designed rig to borrow. I'll change the 16mm fittings to 15mm of course: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryE Posted January 22, 2017 Author Share Posted January 22, 2017 3 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Would it be better to bend copper in that corner and have straight connectors outboard ? My sink is in the kitchen centrally against an outside wall under a window. I've got 2×Hep2O 15mm coming down the wall to the right of the window with 2×15 mm copper running along behind the units, each with a slow bend into the unit under sink. I've simple cut a slot hole in the plasterboard to bring the Hep2O pipe out clear of the wall behind the corner unit and I've 2 × Hep2O 90° elbows joining the copper to the Hep2O and turning the 90° at the same time. I would have used end-feed copper 90s and done a straight Hep2O to copper, but Jan's argument was: what's the difference between a copper - Hep2O straight vs. elbow. I couldn't come up with a valid counter-argument, so I lost this debate. I'll leave you two to discuss this while I go and hide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 The original piping in the loft is riddled with 15 and 22mm copper but most of the joints are done in big old, grey Hep2O. Even a bunch of spare fittings up there which I've made use of when temporarily rerouting. As I'm redoing I'm replacing with soldered as I go but tbh the Hep2O appears bomb proof. Lots of stuff I can't get to yet as you can see here, these pipes are off their clips btw, it's a long run and I can't lift back so the Hep2O stuff is under strain: If Hep2O is dodgy I'm in trouble! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Let me save you the squabble. . Hep is just fantastic stuff. No matter if it's a 90 or a straight your talking fit and forget if youve assembled it accordingly ( rounded and de-burred copper and inserts where required ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryE Posted January 22, 2017 Author Share Posted January 22, 2017 22 minutes ago, Onoff said: I'll gladly post you my home brew, Welsh designed rig to borrow. I'll change the 16mm fittings to 15mm of course: <photo> Clive, thanks for the kind offer, but I am going to need this on and off (forgive the pun) over the next month or so, so it would probably be simpler to borrow the design and do my own. For others' benefit, can you give a quick parts list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryE Posted January 22, 2017 Author Share Posted January 22, 2017 Jan's gone all coy -- mainly because she's got her head in a book, but her aside was "but I did the plumbing, so I'll rest easier once I've seen it pressure tested!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 8 minutes ago, TerryE said: For others' benefit, can you give a quick parts list. He can't, sorry, due to copyright laws I just made up 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryE Posted January 22, 2017 Author Share Posted January 22, 2017 I am trying to work out the easiest way to procure / fix a Schrader valve to the kit. My current thinking is to buy / butcher a bike tyre and lots of CT1 and wipping onto a piece of 15 pipe. Any better suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steptoe Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Buy a short stem valve dor tubeless tyres from a motorbike shop, drill a suitable size hole in a piece of 22mm (or bigger if you can ) pipe, shove the valve from the inside out, Make sure you get a short stem valve, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 @TerryE, you can buy a Schrader valve for a car wheel. It's designed to be pulled through the hole in the rim and form an air-tight seal: http://www.tyre-equipment.co.uk/acatalog/TR413-Bag--10--Rubber-Snap-In-Tubeless-Tyre-Valve-TR413_10.html Drop past a tyre fitting place and see whether they'll give you one. Drill a hole in a 22mm end stop, pull through and Bob's your auntie's live-in lover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryE Posted January 22, 2017 Author Share Posted January 22, 2017 Thanks guys. The end stop idea seems to be simpler to do than trying to make a T. I'll give it a go tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 This with a non-return valve so it stays dry. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryE Posted January 22, 2017 Author Share Posted January 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: This with a non-return valve so it stays dry. . AND its got a schrader valve included. My hero! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 That should get you some brownie points . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Anyone actually know what brownie points are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryE Posted January 22, 2017 Author Share Posted January 22, 2017 Ask your Brown Owl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 I did. She didn't give two hoots 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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