Pocket door blank

[Russdl]

We have two large pocket doors in our new build, 2300 x 1100. More accurately we have big holes where the pocket doors will go. We're using Portman FD30 pocket door kits and sourcing the FD30 door blanks is proving to be difficult and eye waveringly expensive. 

 

Does anyone know a good source for oversize FD30 door blanks?

[Mr Punter]

There are loads of places that can supply these.

 

Just googled https://www.howdens.com/joinery/doors/howdens-solid-core-blank-plywood-flush-fire-door-obj-sku-family-25306489?productFamilyId=DXF0048&skuId=DXF0048

https://www.lawsons.co.uk/product/2440x1220x44mm-exterior-door-blank-fd30/j05500010

https://www.emerysltd.co.uk/fd30-hardwood-door-blank-c2x27285914

 

 

[Russdl]

@Mr Punter You make me feel like a clown! I did that Googling thing and most of the 2440x1220 blanks I found couldn't be trimmed down to the 2300x1100 that I need.

 

That last link you sent seems like they can be and then be re lipped. Straight back to Googling school for me.

[Mr Punter]

I was not sure if you were after a painted finish?

 

Be careful as some of the door blanks are really heavy - make sure the sliding door kit is up to it - you may find lighter weight blanks available.

[Russdl]

@Mr Punter it is to be painted and the weight is a concern. IIRC I can go up to70kg (or was it 80, I'll check before I buy)

[Russell griffiths]

Any reason it needs to be fire rated. 

[Russdl]

1 hour ago, Russell griffiths said:

Any reason it needs to be fire rated.

 

Its because our loft, whilst for storage only will have a fixed staircase and will be open to below on the staircase side. Ive asked BCO the question twice and he insists. 

[Russell griffiths]

32 minutes ago, Russdl said:

 

Its because our loft, whilst for storage only will have a fixed staircase and will be open to below on the staircase side. Ive asked BCO the question twice and he insists. 

So does that mean they have to have self closers. 

[Russdl]

24 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

So does that mean they have to have self closers

 

You’d think so wouldn’t you, but that hasn’t been specified which makes the fact they are fire doors pretty pointless, especially as pocket doors they will spend most of their life open. 

[Mr Punter]

1 hour ago, Russell griffiths said:

So does that mean they have to have self closers. 

 

The regs got rid of those in 3 storey domestic years ago, as they were often the Perko slammers which were a H & S risk with small fingers and they were frequently removed or propped open, negating any fire resisting role.

[Russell griffiths]

So if you don’t need a self closer, what is the point of them being a fire door. ?‍♂️?‍♂️?‍♂️

[Russdl]

2 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

 

So if you don’t need a self closer, what is the point of them being a fire door. ?‍♂️?‍♂️?‍♂️

 

 

I’m at a loss. As I said I’ve asked him to confirm twice if we need fire doors, he’s insistent that we do though I haven’t pointed out how pointless they will be. Do you think I should?

 

IIRC the regulations didn’t really fit around what we have designed and built, if I push too much we may end up being forced to enclose the staircase to the loft and/or close the loft off. 

 

Probably doesn't make much sense, I’ll dig out a drawing to highlight what we have. 

 

[joe90]

What documentation do you need to prove to him that they are FD30 ? (or not ?. )

Edited May 9, 2020 by joe90

[Russdl]

1 minute ago, joe90 said:

What documentation do you need to prove to him that they are FD30 ? (or not ?. )

 

Absolutely no idea and I wouldn't be at all surprised that if they weren't he would have no idea and probably wouldn't question it.

 

But if he did question it, and I hadn't fitted the fire rated doors into the pockets it would be less than straight forward to replace the door blank. With the Portman pocket door system, once they're in that's it, I'd have to open up the wall to change them.

 

Here's section of the house where the stairs go up to the loft. The stairs will be fixed and the loft open to the floors below in the area of the stair well. I believe it's this aspect of the design that has caused building control to insist on fire rated doors, FD20 as it happens but I don't think you can get FD20 doors these days hence the original reference to FD30.

 

 

 

[Temp]

As I recall the regs changed some years ago so that domestic fire doors don't need to be self closing. No idea why.

 

Your loft makes it a three storey house so fire doors are needed on all doors leading off the escape route from the loft. This is to stop fire in a ground or first floor room cutting off your escape from the loft. As least that's my understanding.

 

Some people doing a loft conversion are surprised to find they need to change doors on the ground floor. If the ground floor is open plan to the stairs they may even have to wall off the stairs.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Temp

[Russdl]

2 minutes ago, Temp said:

This is to stop fire in a ground or first floor room cutting off your escape from the loft. As least that's my understanding.

 

That's sort of my understanding as well but as there is no requirement for self closing it all seems a bit pointless. Ho-hum.

[Mike]

 

23 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

So if you don’t need a self closer, what is the point of them being a fire door.

Domestic closers were dropped (except for integral garages) due to a report in 2003 identifying over 30,000 finger-trap injuries each year, plus evidence that many people disabled the closers or wedged the doors.

 

Instead there was supposed to be awareness campaigns advising people to shut their internal doors at night (all doors, as most people didn't know if they had fire doors or not). Obviously if the shut door is a fire door, you have better protection. Leave it open and it is indeed pointless.

[Russdl]

1 hour ago, Mike said:

over 30,000 finger-trap injuries each year,

 

Crikey. At least that won't happen in my new build.

 

1 hour ago, Mike said:

shut their internal doors at night

 

Mind you, neither will that, we'll have to put our reliance in smoke/heat detectors. Thanks for the background to the strange regs.