Pocster Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 These don’t seem to exist . I can’t find any regulation that states a ‘normal’ consumer unit can’t be mounted vertically . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 3 phase boards are normally vertical with the mcb's on their side. What are the actual constraints you have to work with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 15, 2020 Author Share Posted February 15, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, ProDave said: 3 phase boards are normally vertical with the mcb's on their side. What are the actual constraints you have to work with? Plenty of height in man cupboard to use. But width is tricky; not on site at the moment but 30cm is probably max.... Also I'll need lots of units - if I can stack them vertically it's not an issue. Edited February 15, 2020 by pocster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 Double decker/stacked/duplex consumers units are OK, like this: If you have the room, get the largest case size you can though, as it's always a lot easier to work on one where there's plenty of room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 15, 2020 Author Share Posted February 15, 2020 24 minutes ago, Jeremy Harris said: Double decker/stacked/duplex consumers units are OK, like this: If you have the room, get the largest case size you can though, as it's always a lot easier to work on one where there's plenty of room. Yeah I looked at this type of thing ; width was 40cm + ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 This one is 299mm and 20 way https://www.consumerunitworld.co.uk/hager-vml11010-duplex-1010-way-stacked-consumer-unit-2431-p.asp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 15, 2020 Author Share Posted February 15, 2020 Just found this ! width 292 mm ? https://www.consumerunitworld.co.uk/wylex-nmdrs20sslhi-20-way-dual-rcd-high-integrity-consumer-unit-1883-p.asp?gclid=eaiaiqobchmimq39_ivu5wivibptch0fbgeueaqyciabegi0zvd_bwe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 1 minute ago, pocster said: Yeah I looked at this type of thing ; width was 40cm + ... How many ways do you need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 15, 2020 Author Share Posted February 15, 2020 1 minute ago, PeterW said: This one is 299mm and 20 way https://www.consumerunitworld.co.uk/hager-vml11010-duplex-1010-way-stacked-consumer-unit-2431-p.asp Lol ! Must have found them at the same time ! Appreciated!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 15, 2020 Author Share Posted February 15, 2020 Just now, Jeremy Harris said: How many ways do you need? Well ! I will need to stack units above each other . As I have radial cabling per room ; it adds up . Just upstairs ( above ground ) from memory it’s about 14 ; so will exceed 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 15, 2020 Author Share Posted February 15, 2020 Quick question . If I have some DIN rail relays can I assume I don’t need an RCD per DIN ? . I.e the DIN can share 1 consumer unit fuse ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 17 minutes ago, pocster said: Well ! I will need to stack units above each other . As I have radial cabling per room ; it adds up . Just upstairs ( above ground ) from memory it’s about 14 ; so will exceed 20 Bear in mind that you can have several outlets per radial, the limit is set by the total load per circuit (typically 20 A for a radial). Most household loads are now pretty small, and the worst that can happen if you do overload a circuit is that it will trip, with no harm caused. 15 minutes ago, pocster said: Quick question . If I have some DIN rail relays can I assume I don’t need an RCD per DIN ? . I.e the DIN can share 1 consumer unit fuse ? Depends on the rating of the relay. Circuit protection is all about selecting over current protection ratings such that nothing downstream can draw more than its rated current. So, for example, a 13 A outlet cannot draw more than 13 A (as it's protected by the fuse in the plug) so the over current protection device only needs to protect the cable, which, if it's a 2.5mm T&E will have a current rating of 27 A if clipped direct (not run in insulation). If you fit a relay downstream of the over current protection device, then either that relay needs to be rated for a current that is higher than the protection device rating, or the protection device current rating needs to be reduced to the relay maximum current or below. The over current protection device can either be an MCB (miniature circuit breaker) or an RCBO, which adds a residual current device to an MCB in the same housing. An RCD, on it's own, does not provide any over current protection, it's there to detect earth leakage faults only. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 24 minutes ago, pocster said: Quick question . If I have some DIN rail relays can I assume I don’t need an RCD per DIN ? . I.e the DIN can share 1 consumer unit fuse ? You mean can the switch feed be from one circuit ..? Are they switched with 5v,12v or 230v..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 15, 2020 Author Share Posted February 15, 2020 5 minutes ago, PeterW said: You mean can the switch feed be from one circuit ..? Are they switched with 5v,12v or 230v..? Erm - not sure ! Qubino z wave relay can supply 200w I think . It’s not a problem will get sparky to explain - just wondered ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 8 minutes ago, pocster said: Erm - not sure ! Qubino z wave relay can supply 200w I think . It’s not a problem will get sparky to explain - just wondered ... Each relay will need over current protection, but this may well be built in. The wireless relay units I have around the house all have built in fuses, so worth checking whether the units you plan to use are the same. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 SBS do a 2x12 (so 22-way) and it's only 279mm wide: PRICES 2019 - JULY.pdf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 On 15/02/2020 at 12:28, pocster said: I can’t find any regulation that states a ‘normal’ consumer unit can’t be mounted vertically . Not sure if the regs have anything to say about it, but my place has the consumer unit mounted on its side. Though when I rewire the new one will be mounted conventionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 There is a school of thought that suggests heat dissipation from the breakers might not be as efficient with a domestic consumer unit if mounted vertically. Pretty sure there's a Voltium report on exactly this floating about somewhere. Commercial distribution boards tend to be much bigger. Also is the ON/OFF of the main isolator going to be as visible and as accessible as when mounted "normally"? Can't see the issue myself. I'd be printing new labels though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Don’t the doors have to be self closing on a consumer unit now ..? Surely vertical mounting will mean it no longer closes correctly..?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, PeterW said: Don’t the doors have to be self closing on a consumer unit now ..? Surely vertical mounting will mean it no longer closes correctly..?? Don't know. Many 3P distribution boards I come across have side hinged doors but are lockable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Thinking about it most new ones have a metal cover hinged at the top so it'll naturally shut. That's to contain any fire. You have to wonder why 3P boards have doors that can be left open... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 50 minutes ago, PeterW said: Don’t the doors have to be self closing on a consumer unit now ..? Surely vertical mounting will mean it no longer closes correctly..?? I have fitted new 17th edition metal CU's with a door that hinges down. Perhaps that was an early one and you can't buy them like that any more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMagic Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 I'd be tempted to move the Qubino units out in to a seperate DIN rail enclosure - it looks like they have different wiring rather than standard 'bus bar' style connections. This could also help with sign off as there is some debate at the moment as to what constitutes 'designed and built for compatibility', i.e. you shouldn't be mixing different manufacturers gear together in one CU ... (although this is a weird reg but I can understand it a little with different manufacturers using different offsets for their bus bars). May also help with serviceability since when you want to put those Qubinos in association mode you won't have to be poking around in the main CU - plus should you ever replace the Qubinos with another technology you only have to rip and replace the 'lighting board' as such. As an alternative to the double height boards you can simply stack smaller units together. Even with your 30cm width that's still going to be tight, especially once you factor in space for the tails and perhaps some vertical trunking to run carrying all the cables in and out. See what your sparky says as they'll be the one putting pen to paper for you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 9 hours ago, ProDave said: I have fitted new 17th edition metal CU's with a door that hinges down. Perhaps that was an early one and you can't buy them like that any more? I was mulling spring loaded doors with a "bonnet stay"... A fold down lid with a lip forms a handy tray imo for when putting the stickers on. Let's face it if you leave grommets out and vermin get in then metal CUs might as well be a wall mounted fire! ? Exactly happened at that stately home that went up. I think the investigation report was posted up on here a while ago? For anyone reading ALWAYS double check the FACTORY connections in a cu as well as the ones you make. No pun intended but they can be shockingly loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 10 hours ago, ProDave said: I have fitted new 17th edition metal CU's with a door that hinges down. Perhaps that was an early one and you can't buy them like that any more? I was mulling spring loaded doors with a "bonnet stay"... A fold down lid with a lip forms a handy tray imo for when putting the stickers on. Let's face it if you leave grommets out and vermin get in then metal CUs might as well be a wall mounted fire! ? Exactly happened at that stately home that went up. I think the investigation report was posted up on here a while ago? For anyone reading ALWAYS double check the FACTORY connections in a cu as well as the ones you make. No pun intended but they can be shockingly loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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