Cost of Aesthetics?

[puntloos]

Take a look at the attached picture, showing 2 variations of the same house:

 

 

The two big differences are

- the slightly retracted top floor, also splitting the roof (theoretically allowing for e.g. skylights)

- the angled light catcher room vs a more square version.

 

My questions:

- Assuming we do sacrifice space (so the house has about 10sqm less floorspace, at 10x2000GBP=20,000 GBP), what the cost of putting in beams to support the top floor , the extra roof part, insulation issues etc etc add up to? Are we going to break even? Make a little money perhaps? Or will it be costly?

- Assuming the angled room is about 11sqm, and the square one is the same how much would angling the wall cost? Perhaps assume 11*2000=22000 for the square one?

[oldkettle]

This is the view from the back, isn't it? Are you sure the esthetic difference would be equally noticeable from the ground floor level in the middle of the garden? 

[PeterW]

Either design has nowhere to “park” the bifold doors so they appear a waste of space. 
 

Steels won’t be an issue although a cold bridge would be formed which would need careful detailing. 

[Lesgrandepotato]

Does it reflect its plot? I prefer the lower one from outside, but the internal junction of the wall that terrine is all wrong. The wall should run round not have a shade making return in it. 

[puntloos]

Thanks for the responses so far- to be clear, this is my design, but working with an architect to make it into something 'sane'.

6 hours ago, oldkettle said:

This is the view from the back, isn't it?

 

Correct.

6 hours ago, oldkettle said:

Are you sure the esthetic difference would be equally noticeable from the ground floor level in the middle of the garden? 

Good question, I can play around with the views. But another good question is 'how often will I be in the garden looking exactly that angle'... answer is probably 'not too many' so indeed that factors deeply into 'is it worth it'...  (but if the price difference is 10 quid, then probably yes?)

 

5 hours ago, PeterW said:

Either design has nowhere to “park” the bifold doors so they appear a waste of space. 
 

Interesting point, my fault certainly, I have just 'inserted' those doors blindly, I never figured to think about where they would fold into. Is it bad to just have the panels accumulate at the edges of the window? Or am I missing your point? 

 

5 hours ago, PeterW said:

Steels won’t be an issue although a cold bridge would be formed which would need careful detailing. 

My cold-bridge understanding is still a bit rudimentary. Where would this cold bridge run?

 

5 hours ago, Lesgrandepotato said:

 

Does it reflect its plot?

Can you be more specific? Do you mean the full house size vs the plot size? It's definitely trying to maximize the floor space, but this is an inner city build, space is at a premium so some corners are cut

5 hours ago, Lesgrandepotato said:

I prefer the lower one from outside,

Apologies for the newbieness but I'm completely failing to understand your next sentence:

5 hours ago, Lesgrandepotato said:

but the internal junction

I assume you mean this one:

5 hours ago, Lesgrandepotato said:

of the wall that terrine is all wrong. The wall should run round not have a shade making return in it. 

 

Frankly, I don't understand which part is the 'shade making return' is? This is all sun-facing. Of course there needed to be place for the pocket doors, that cause shade?

[Temp]

Check the pitch on the garden Room roof. With a window on the house the pitch might be too low for some types of tile.

 

On version 2.. the exterior wall upstairs will need to be supported on something, either interior walls downstairs or steel beams. It looks like you may have interior walls?

Edited January 28, 2020 by Temp

[Lesgrandepotato]

6 hours ago, puntloos said:

Thanks for the responses so far- to be clear, this is my design, but working with an architect to make it into something 'sane'.

 

Correct.

Good question, I can play around with the views. But another good question is 'how often will I be in the garden looking exactly that angle'... answer is probably 'not too many' so indeed that factors deeply into 'is it worth it'...  (but if the price difference is 10 quid, then probably yes?)

 

Interesting point, my fault certainly, I have just 'inserted' those doors blindly, I never figured to think about where they would fold into. Is it bad to just have the panels accumulate at the edges of the window? Or am I missing your point? 

 

My cold-bridge understanding is still a bit rudimentary. Where would this cold bridge run?

 

Can you be more specific? Do you mean the full house size vs the plot size? It's definitely trying to maximize the floor space, but this is an inner city build, space is at a premium so some corners are cut

Apologies for the newbieness but I'm completely failing to understand your next sentence:

I assume you mean this one:

 

Frankly, I don't understand which part is the 'shade making return' is? This is all sun-facing. Of course there needed to be place for the pocket doors, that cause shade?

Ok, so In my mind the pocket should go to the apparent junction of the two walls instead of being some distance away. 

[AliG]

@peterw are you sure about the steel? I am no structural engineer, but the steel would need somewhere to rest on. It looks like the only place to rest would be the outside walls at each end of the house. This makes it 11-12m long, not only would this be very expensive, but it would be very thick and hard to hide although I think that would be OK due to the small area of roof it could be behind.

 

That small area of roof will need more flashing, guttering etc. Between this and the steel I suspect the lower design would cost more to build whilst being smaller upstairs. Also square metres usually have a value, so you will have reduced the value and spent at least as much.

 

As to the angled sun room, I don't think that would add much to the cost, the roof would be a little more awkward to build and the flooring a little more awkward to install, but I suspect it is minor. Personally I find angled walls a bit jarring, but maybe it is just me.

 

The lower design looks a little better, but for the rear of a house adds little, maybe good for the front of a house,

 

The question re the pitch of the tiles is a good one to check.

 

I would ask about all the bi-folds. Why? Bi-fold are expensive and hard to seal. Would you really be using all those bi-folds. Especially the one at the end of the sunroom, I would assume that any patio is between the back of the house and sunroom, so why open out onto another area of garden. Also a room with only one solid wall will be very difficult to furnish. I would change the end bi-fold to a fixed window at least. I would also try to place your furniture on the plan to see how it might work. If they end up blocked by furniture they don't seem worth the cost.

[puntloos]

52 minutes ago, Lesgrandepotato said:

Ok, so In my mind the pocket should go to the apparent junction of the two walls instead of being some distance away. 

Fair enough. I guess the reason for me pulling it back was just to gain space for the living room... but it's only a few cm anyway.. 

[Mr Punter]

As a rule I find a 50:50 split between living areas and bedroom areas works well, so unless there is an integral garage at the front I don't see the point in having the setback 1st floor at the back.

 

The garden room and kitchen will get so hot they will be almost unusable for a fair amount of time.  You should design this out now instead of trying to mitigate it after it has been built.

 

As others have mentioned the folding doors can really get in the way.

[PeterW]

14 hours ago, AliG said:

peterw are you sure about the steel? I am no structural engineer, but the steel would need somewhere to rest on. It looks like the only place to rest would be the outside walls at each end of the house. This makes it 11-12m long, not only would this be very expensive, but it would be very thick and hard to hide although I think that would be OK due to the small area of roof it could be behind.

Didn’t see that it was a fully open L shape as it looks like a wall inside but realise it’s a shadow now. 
 

Would agree - that’s a big steel ..!

[Mr Punter]

54 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Didn’t see that it was a fully open L shape as it looks like a wall inside but realise it’s a shadow now. 
 

Would agree - that’s a big steel ..!

 

If it is the whole width of the house I would say it could not be done without a very large downstand which would restrict headroom indoors.  Epic steel and supporting structure needed.

[puntloos]

8 hours ago, Mr Punter said:

As a rule I find a 50:50 split between living areas and bedroom areas works well,

 

To be clear, you mean same amount of floorspace allocated to beds as to living? 

 

Frankly I'm going a bit more towards living. We have a very small family and also feel we just don't spend a lot of time in said beds. (with the exception of the kid, he probably will want a nicely sized place for doing his own thing, away from us..)

 

8 hours ago, Mr Punter said:

so unless there is an integral garage at the front I don't see the point in having the setback 1st floor at the back.

 

Yeah I think we're moving away from this idea, also because it's too awkward (with the steel beam etc). Sadly my (uncharitable) render is a bit jarring, perhaps we can apply some patterns/detailing that makes it more palatable

 

8 hours ago, Mr Punter said:

The garden room and kitchen will get so hot they will be almost unusable for a fair amount of time.  You should design this out now instead of trying to mitigate it after it has been built.

 

Why would the garden room be particularly hot? (let alone the kitchen?) - purely because of the amount of glass used? We haven't quite settled on how open vs closed everything would be, indeed the current design is on the glassy side, but I was planning to install awnings above all the glass to control the heat, and of course 'proper' insulation?

 

8 hours ago, Mr Punter said:

As others have mentioned the folding doors can really get in the way.

Yeah I'll be sure to evaluate those closely.