Roz Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 (edited) So I think I have come full circle away from a Sunamp and back to using our cupboard for a water tank, to be part heated by the ASHP we were already planning to have for our downstairs underfloor heating. When looking into ASHPs and tanks, I came across these, and wondered why they weren't more of a 'thing'. Does anyone have any thoughts? Would noise be an issue? How do they differ to a regular outdoor ashp? https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2612/5402/files/CE-ES300.pdf?128 Edited January 12, 2020 by Roz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 Horrible things unless you’ve got an overheated leaky house ... they need to get heat from “somewhere” and that’s the room they are in - they can’t get enough without a decent high volume air flow so take ages to reheat. I’d never fit one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted January 12, 2020 Author Share Posted January 12, 2020 1 minute ago, PeterW said: Horrible things unless you’ve got an overheated leaky house ... they need to get heat from “somewhere” and that’s the room they are in - they can’t get enough without a decent high volume air flow so take ages to reheat. I’d never fit one. Thanks Peter, I thought there must be a reason they aren't being talked about everywhere. I'll set aside some time for ASHP and tank searching soon then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 I don't think that is an exhaust air heat pump, it looks like a true heat pump with duct ports so you can pipe inlet and outlet air from outside. My criticism with them, is if one component fails, either the heat pump, or the tank, then the whole lot is scrap, Best keep heat pumo and tank as separate items. If you are having a heat pump for heating, why would you want to buy another for hot water? Several of us on here heat all our hot water from the same ASHP that heats the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted January 12, 2020 Author Share Posted January 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, ProDave said: I don't think that is an exhaust air heat pump, it looks like a true heat pump with duct ports so you can pipe inlet and outlet air from outside. My criticism with them, is if one component fails, either the heat pump, or the tank, then the whole lot is scrap, Best keep heat pumo and tank as separate items. If you are having a heat pump for heating, why would you want to buy another for hot water? Several of us on here heat all our hot water from the same ASHP that heats the house. Ah I thought it would be able to do the heating too, but admit I haven't thought about it very deeply and it seems to make sense it wouldn't cope with doing both. So that rules that out for that reason too then I guess! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, Roz said: Ah I thought it would be able to do the heating too, but admit I haven't thought about it very deeply and it seems to make sense it wouldn't cope with doing both. So that rules that out for that reason too then I guess! No it won't. Get a normal monoblock ASHP that goes outside and does the job properly. Even if it did or could work, why would you want to put the noise of the compressor inside the house? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 I have wondered about getting one and modifying it to do space heating as well. My heat and water load us about 17 kWh/day in winter, drops to 3 kWh/day in summer. All I need us a very small ASHP, which these are. Not sure who makes a very small unit as the cost us greater than the benefits at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 (edited) 31 minutes ago, ProDave said: No it won't. Get a normal monoblock ASHP that goes outside and does the job properly. Even if it did or could work, why would you want to put the noise of the compressor inside the house? im with @ProDave, I have a similar set up (ASHP outside, tank and pumps inside), if (when) the ASHP fails I can change it out simply, even fir a different size, spec, efficiency as techknowledgy changes. Like Dave my ASHP does UFH and DHW. Edited January 12, 2020 by joe90 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 If you treat that unit like a monoblock ASHP, rather than just a water heater in a cupboard. Then it could be swapped out like a traditional one. That is my thinking on it for my place, which don't need a lot of heating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 14 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: If you treat that unit like a monoblock ASHP, rather than just a water heater in a cupboard. Then it could be swapped out like a traditional one. That is my thinking on it for my place, which don't need a lot of heating. I can't even work out from that file linked above what size that HP is: Average Absorption heat pump only kW 0.627 Electric heating element integration kW 0.9 max nominal absorption kW 1.527 Primary power kW 43.0 I would guess a 1.5KW heat pump but what is that last figure all about? Also Heating time Min 268 I guess that means it takes 268 minutes to heat the tank, that's 4 3/4 hours to heat a tank full of water. I would not hold out much hope of it heating your house as well as your hot water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 I am getting concerned at what is going to turn up on the new build I am doing. The customer is going to buy a Cool Energy ASHP. He also talks about buying a "pre plumbed" hot water cylinder from them, but I can't see that on their web site. I have cautioned him against buying one of these heat pump cylinders but worry he has misunderstood or been badly advised by the supplier and it is one of these that will turn up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 16 minutes ago, ProDave said: would not hold out much hope of it heating your house as well as your hot water But I only need 17 kWh/day. It is really about getting a small heat pump, unless you know if a 'traditional' one that is 2 kW output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 So how would you run your heating from that? Draw off potable hot water through a heat exchanger to heat the heating? (assuming the tank is ported for a HW return) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 Make it a closed loop system with a couple of heat exchangers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 3 hours ago, SteamyTea said: But I only need 17 kWh/day. It is really about getting a small heat pump, unless you know if a 'traditional' one that is 2 kW output. The EASHP in my Genvex Combi 185LS is rated at 585W input and has a 1kW immersion, so total input is very similar to the CE-ES300. We have never had a problem with running out of DHW and we have never used the immersion even though it is only 185l. When it's not heating water it's available to heat the air from the MVHR. As mine is an EASHP, unlike the CE-ES300, the CoP is good but I like the details of the CE-ES300 and would certainly consider it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 46 minutes ago, PeterStarck said: EASHP in my Genvex Combi 185LS is rated at 585W input and has a 1kW immersion With a bit of plumbing and ducting it should be possible to make it just like a real ASHP, with the benefit that it can also do the MVHR. All I am after us a box that draws in air, extracts the heat, which heats up water. But small. Because of the low heat loads I need, I don't think short cycling would be a problem, so no need for a modulating unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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