Procrastinator seeking advice...

[FingersAndThumbs]

Hello,

 

New to the forum as I really need advice on steps to take my renovation/building project forward. My wife says that my New Year's Resolution is to get my finger out, so here I am! ?

 

We have a 1970s bungalow on a plot of around an acre. The plan is to renovate and possibly see if we can get an additional plot on the site.
 

The questions keeping me up at night are -
 

1. I've been advised previously to seek pre-application advice from the council for the potential plot. There are currently a few trees where the house would be. Is it a possibility that I'd get a tree preservation order slapped on them if I go for a discussion with the planners?

 

2. I have a couple of ideas for the bungalow renovation. One is to replace the roof trusses with attic trusses and make the house into a chalet bungalow. The second is to add an extension at ground level. Is  there a way of getting cigarette packet costs for such things to allow me to make the decision quickly without paying out a fortune for architects drawings?

 

Thanks,

Gavin

 

[Moonshine]

1) the pre app advice you get will be dependent on the council, but I found mine 50/50 in terms of usefulness. Tbh if you really want to get a house in there I would get the trees down before any pre-app discussion with the council or application.

What are the trees and how big are they? Also bear in mind any root protection zones of other on site and off site trees.

[ToughButterCup]

24 minutes ago, FingersAndThumbs said:

New to the forum as I really need advice on steps to take my renovation/building project forward. My wife says[...]

 

Haaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh, many of us have one o' them ? Trouble is they're always right.

Cant help you with your current question , but when it comes to procrastination - oh boy have We Got News For You ...... read this lot and weep.

[FingersAndThumbs]

23 minutes ago, Moonshine said:

1) the pre app advice you get will be dependent on the council, but I found mine 50/50 in terms of usefulness. Tbh if you really want to get a house in there I would get the trees down before any pre-app discussion with the council or application.

What are the trees and how big are they? Also bear in mind any root protection zones of other on site and off site trees.

 

Ta for the advice. I *think* the trees are sycamore and quite sizeable. Part of the procrastination is my reluctance to take them down as they take a wee while to grow back, but it may be a case of needs must.

[Moonshine]

Just now, FingersAndThumbs said:

Part of the procrastination is my reluctance to take them down as they take a wee while to grow back, but it may be a case of needs must.

 

they don't need to come down until the day you submit anything, so may not need to be right away.

 

also consider other trees on / off site as the root protection zones of these will be circles of radius 12 times the truck diameter.

[FingersAndThumbs]

12 minutes ago, AnonymousBosch said:

Trouble is they're always right.

 

That's what she keeps telling me.  ?

 

And thanks for the saga OnOff! ?

 

[FingersAndThumbs]

4 minutes ago, Moonshine said:

 

they don't need to come down until the day you submit anything, so may not need to be right away.

 

also consider other trees on / off site as the root protection zones of these will be circles of radius 12 times the truck diameter.

 

I have a tree survey from years back that shows root boundaries etc, so can work around that. What I'm concerned at is going for a chat to discuss options with the council before I submit anything formally, and them get heavy handed with a TPO.
 

[Russell griffiths]

Do you have a budget for the renovation 

at least if we know this we can tell you if your in the ballpark, and a picture would be handy. 

Why not a picture of the whole plot frontage as we might be able to give you a clue regarding planning. 

[Roundtuit]

I think TPO status can be given to trees that have 'amenity value', i.e. they're good specimens, and they can be seen and enjoyed by the general public.  If they don't meet that criteria then you're probably pretty safe.  As it stands, with no TPO, they're in your garden and you can do what you want with them.  We had a lot of poor trees on and around our plot and in the spirit of doing things right I engaged with the local tree conservation officer quite early on (well, after a couple of key ones had ...fallen down).  He was really good; came out for a site meeting, shrugged his shoulders and said 'nothing here worth saving' and let me get on with it.  As part of our landscaping scheme I'll be planting a load more trees to compensate, but that suits me fine.

[Bitpipe]

16 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

Do you have a budget for the renovation 

at least if we know this we can tell you if your in the ballpark, and a picture would be handy. 

Why not a picture of the whole plot frontage as we might be able to give you a clue regarding planning. 

 

If you're planning a major expansion (e.g. removing roof and external walls) then consider demolition & rebuild.

 

Zero rated for VAT (i.e. you have 20% more budget) and you build to one set of standards vs tying in new with old.

 

 

[FingersAndThumbs]

17 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

Do you have a budget for the renovation 

at least if we know this we can tell you if your in the ballpark, and a picture would be handy. 

Why not a picture of the whole plot frontage as we might be able to give you a clue regarding planning. 

 

Hi Russell. Budget for renovation is anywhere up to £200k, but for that I'd want to see at least a similar value added to the house. Could push the boat out a bit more if it makes sense to do so. That would hinge on getting the plot though.

External dimensions of the house is 8m*20m and 5m*10m for the garage.

 

One of my thoughts is to replace the roof trusses with attic trusses. This would change the pitch and put the bedrooms upstairs. I'd want one area downstairs to have a vaulted ceiling to give the wow factor.

 

Another thought is to add an extension to the other side, of approximately 6m*6m and have that with vaulted ceilings to have some wow factor.

 

And just to throw another option into the mix... the garage could be converted into the kitchen and move the garage somewhere else. Thinking that may be just as costly as building the extension to the other side though, and unless there were some roof works, there would be no vaulted ceilings.

 

Out of the three, number 1 would give the largest increase in floor space, and changing the roof trusses for vaulted ones is easy, right?? I realise it's not that simple, but if the foundations were suitable, it would mean no ground works would be required. It would also mean that the roof would be to modern thermal standards.

 

There would be some internal remodelling for all three, but would be similar amount of work, I think.

 

Looks wise, the thought is to go Scandinavian. All very simple lines and clad the outside in wood to cover the 1970s brickwork.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by FingersAndThumbs

[FingersAndThumbs]

9 hours ago, Roundtuit said:

I think TPO status can be given to trees that have 'amenity value', i.e. they're good specimens, and they can be seen and enjoyed by the general public.  If they don't meet that criteria then you're probably pretty safe.  As it stands, with no TPO, they're in your garden and you can do what you want with them.  We had a lot of poor trees on and around our plot and in the spirit of doing things right I engaged with the local tree conservation officer quite early on (well, after a couple of key ones had ...fallen down).  He was really good; came out for a site meeting, shrugged his shoulders and said 'nothing here worth saving' and let me get on with it.  As part of our landscaping scheme I'll be planting a load more trees to compensate, but that suits me fine.

 

The definition of 'amenity value' is vague though. I have a good few trees so having a couple 'fall down' probably wouldn't be too terrible. I know two are on the way out anyway.

[FingersAndThumbs]

40 minutes ago, Bitpipe said:

 

If you're planning a major expansion (e.g. removing roof and external walls) then consider demolition & rebuild.

 

Zero rated for VAT (i.e. you have 20% more budget) and you build to one set of standards vs tying in new with old.

 

 

 

Yes, this is another option. It would also mean I could rejig how another house would sit in the plot.

One of my big concerns is how I get what I currently have up to a good standard of insulation. We're on oil and the house does like to drink the stuff.

I'd like to move to using either a ground source or air source heat pump and as the house stands it's not viable.

[Bitpipe]

1 minute ago, FingersAndThumbs said:

 

Yes, this is another option. It would also mean I could rejig how another house would sit in the plot.

One of my big concerns is how I get what I currently have up to a good standard of insulation. We're on oil and the house does like to drink the stuff.

I'd like to move to using either a ground source or air source heat pump and as the house stands it's not viable.

 

It's worth considering - we were in a similar position having bought a very tired 1950's detached that had little change apart from an 80's double glazing install.

 

Bit the bullet, demolished it (£5k cost) and was able to put a passive standard house in its place, fixing some significant plot positioning issues (it's a rectangular 1/2 acre plot and the original house sat at 30^o off centre) plus created a 6m access to the rear for future development option.

 

I've met four or five other self builders over this period, including one set of good friends, who did major alterations and just wished they'd gone the demolition & new build route as they all had issues tying new to old or ended up with one or two walls standing but paid full VAT on the build.

 

Also, our build (timber frame) was about 6 weeks from start of frame erection to fully finished exterior (rendered walls, slated roof, windows & doors) and that was a mid November start. We moved in the following August, living on site in a caravan (very cheap and not that uncomfortable). We built a basement first which took about 8 weeks, a simple passive slab would have been much quicker (few weeks including groundworks).

 

If you're just planning to upgrade the existing and not change the footprint at all then it's probably too extreme an option but if you have bigger plans then sit down and crunch the numbers.

[Cpd]

1 hour ago, Bitpipe said:

I've met four or five other self builders over this period, including one set of good friends, who did major alterations and just wished they'd gone the demolition & new build route as they all had issues tying new to old or ended up with one or two walls standing but paid full VAT on the build.

totally in this boat........ I had the cash to do a new build, plenty of space but due to my limited knowledge I went down the renovation road.... far to late for me now and no point crying over spilt milk but I do agree about taking a serious look at the pros and cons to major renovations v demolition and new build.  

[FingersAndThumbs]

3 hours ago, Bitpipe said:

 

It's worth considering - we were in a similar position having bought a very tired 1950's detached that had little change apart from an 80's double glazing install.

 

Bit the bullet, demolished it (£5k cost) and was able to put a passive standard house in its place, fixing some significant plot positioning issues (it's a rectangular 1/2 acre plot and the original house sat at 30^o off centre) plus created a 6m access to the rear for future development option.

 

I've met four or five other self builders over this period, including one set of good friends, who did major alterations and just wished they'd gone the demolition & new build route as they all had issues tying new to old or ended up with one or two walls standing but paid full VAT on the build.

 

Also, our build (timber frame) was about 6 weeks from start of frame erection to fully finished exterior (rendered walls, slated roof, windows & doors) and that was a mid November start. We moved in the following August, living on site in a caravan (very cheap and not that uncomfortable). We built a basement first which took about 8 weeks, a simple passive slab would have been much quicker (few weeks including groundworks).

 

If you're just planning to upgrade the existing and not change the footprint at all then it's probably too extreme an option but if you have bigger plans then sit down and crunch the numbers.

 

1 hour ago, Cpd said:

totally in this boat........ I had the cash to do a new build, plenty of space but due to my limited knowledge I went down the renovation road.... far to late for me now and no point crying over spilt milk but I do agree about taking a serious look at the pros and cons to major renovations v demolition and new build.  

 

Question is, how do I find that information without shelling out for architects drawings and quotes, etc.
 

The two options that avoid messing with the current structure of the house two much is one 6m*6m extension or 10m*5m garage conversion.

Both of these options don't do anything to up the insulation levels though, which is another factor.

 

Is there a good way to get ballpark/fag packet figures to help narrow down the options?
 

[Bitpipe]

3 hours ago, FingersAndThumbs said:

 

 

Question is, how do I find that information without shelling out for architects drawings and quotes, etc.
 

The two options that avoid messing with the current structure of the house two much is one 6m*6m extension or 10m*5m garage conversion.

Both of these options don't do anything to up the insulation levels though, which is another factor.

 

Is there a good way to get ballpark/fag packet figures to help narrow down the options?
 

 

Most architects will give you a free hour on site to discuss possibilities. Do a birds eye capture, A4 size, of your house & plot inc access (i.e. from google maps) and you'll have a rough site plan that they can doodle on.

 

Depending on where you are in UK you can expect between £1500 and £2000 per m2 for a new build - depends if you are able to manage the project or rely on a main contractor.

 

Also get a local builder to give you a rough estimate for a standard extension (easier than pricing up a new build) and a refurb of existing. Your best insulation option is probably EWI so you could get a quote for that too. Remember to add VAT to all of this and a healthy contingency (30%) for 'unknowns'.

 

New builds will obv. cost more (do take VAT into account) but you get what you want and are pretty straightforward so easier to budget for.

 

Refurbs can throw up 'surprises' and will always be a compromise of old and new, but should cost significantly less.

 

 

[FingersAndThumbs]

14 hours ago, Bitpipe said:

 

Most architects will give you a free hour on site to discuss possibilities. Do a birds eye capture, A4 size, of your house & plot inc access (i.e. from google maps) and you'll have a rough site plan that they can doodle on.

 

Depending on where you are in UK you can expect between £1500 and £2000 per m2 for a new build - depends if you are able to manage the project or rely on a main contractor.

 

Also get a local builder to give you a rough estimate for a standard extension (easier than pricing up a new build) and a refurb of existing. Your best insulation option is probably EWI so you could get a quote for that too. Remember to add VAT to all of this and a healthy contingency (30%) for 'unknowns'.

 

New builds will obv. cost more (do take VAT into account) but you get what you want and are pretty straightforward so easier to budget for.

 

Refurbs can throw up 'surprises' and will always be a compromise of old and new, but should cost significantly less.

 

 

 

Cheers. I'm trying at the moment to get hold of a 'tame' builder to give me some quotes / options.

 

The options I'm bouncing around don't require messing around too much with the structure, I don't think. The major one involving changing the roof trusses I hoped would be seen in the same light as new build rather than renovation as I see that there are companies that can come and take off the roof and plonk on a new one with rooms already fitted.  I should get in contact with them for an estimate. https://moduloft.co.uk/

 

I'm looking to clad the exterior so EWI would work. If I keep on the one level and use the original roof, is it a case of lag lag lag, or are there better solutions? It's already two layers thick up there. Also we have a floating floor but don't fancy lifting to insulate underneath.

 

I've had one architect around discussing options. I should def. arrange another.