Worktops, sinks and traps.

[ProDave]

There is a bit more to this thread that I will expand upon later.

 

The immediate question refers to sink wastes and traps, a job I am trying to do just now and would appreciate an opinion please.

 

If I fit the waste and trap as it is intended, the trap ends up very low inside the sink unit.  Even allowing for the fact I can shorten the bit of pipe above the trap, it still ends up lower than I want, which forces me to put the shelf a lot lower than I want, or forces me to cut a hole in the shelf for the trap to hang down through which is awkward and I think looks like a bodge.

 

 

If I make some "alterations" I can move the trap so it is lower down, below the level of the shelf, and right at the back of the unit. This mock up shows what I have in mind. 
 

 

Again by shortening the first bit of pipe out of the branch, my top elbow will be higher if I proceed and do this.

 

This would mean I only need to notch the back of the shelf to clear the pipe, and can fit the shelf where I want otherwise unobstructed.

 

 

Can anyone give me a reason not to do this?

 

[ProDave]

Well nobody shouted at me not to do it, so I have done it.

And here it is with the shelf in place

 

There were a few other things that constrained me, like the position of the main stop tap, otherwise I could have put the shelf a bit higher still.

 

For those pondering the details, in effect I was intercepting and modifying the "inner workings" of a waste trap system.  That presents a few difficulties.  The main one being the pipe used withing the trap is 40mm, yes real 40mm outside diameter pipe.  Unlike the "40mm" waste pipe we all buy and use that is something like 43mm outside diameter.  So standard "40mm" waste pipe and fittings are no good for modifying an intermediate bit of a waste system.

 

The solution.  40mm compression waste fittings have enough give to compress down onto real 40mm pipe so that is what I used for the 2 elbows.  That means the extra horizontal bit is 43mm pipe.  That just meant I needed an extra bit of real 40mm pipe, which of course you cannot easily buy.  The solution to that is my washing machine stand pipe is now 6" shorter than it was this morning to donate the 6" of 40mm pipe I needed.

 

Have I ever mentioned I hate waste pipe and fittings and the fact not all bits fit together as one might hope?

 

More on this thread to come when I have made more progress on the job in hand and taken some more pictures.

[joe90]

Yes, that is similar to what I did and yes some trap stuff is crap.

[ProDave]

So now the "big picture" of what this is all about and the job in hand.

 

Over a year ago when we fitted the kitchen, we had neither the time or money to organise the final worktop, so I fitted a temporary cheap worktop and sink.

 

But being a cash strapped self builder, that worktop was not going to be wasted.  A bit of forward planning and that worktop was always destined to move to the utility room.  That is why the worktop was left deliberately over length, hanging out close to the stove, but we managed not to even singe it (thanks to a metal baffle plate screwed under the overhanging bit)

 

So now the utility room was finally ready for it

 

 

And it fitted like a glove

 

 

 

It was the waste fitting and shelf in the utility room that was the starting point of this thread.

 

So now for the next 2 weeks we have an awkward situation with no sink in the kitchen, and all sink work being done in the utility room.  Should keep us fit with all the walking between rooms.

 

So in the kitchen we are now preparing for the new sink and worktop.  Here is the sink rested in place to give a flavour of the challenges that it poses.

 

 

It's an under mounted sink going in a granite worktop.

 

I will know more when the guys arrive this afternoon to template the worktop.  But the obvious thing that strikes me, as the tap will go through the worktop behind the sink, that the tap is going to be a long way back.  So I can see no alternative but cut a lot of the back panel of the sink unit away, and even then, it is going to be a very awkward job fitting the tap.

 

I will be interested to see how others with similar arrangements have done this?

[Barney12]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

 

 

I will know more when the guys arrive this afternoon to template the worktop.  But the obvious thing that strikes me, as the tap will go through the worktop behind the sink, that the tap is going to be a long way back.  So I can see no alternative but cut a lot of the back panel of the sink unit away, and even then, it is going to be a very awkward job fitting the tap.

 

I will be interested to see how others with similar arrangements have done this?

 

Thats uncanny timing. I've just been going through the exact same thought process for a kitchen I'm planning in another house. Its going to be a DIY-Kitchens purchase (Thanks to feedback from this group). 

 

I know its not going to help you buy my solution is to go for one of the inset sinks with offset half bowl: i.e. (random link selection!):

 

https://www.franke.com/gb/en/ks/products/kitchen-sink/ariane/122-0154-935_detail.html 

 

where you mount the tap in the corner (thus away from the wall).

 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2019 by Barney12

[ProDave]

Well the man came today to template the worktops.

 

As I suspected the centreline of the tap hole is going to be 70mm in from the back of the worktop. putting it right on top of the back section of the unit.

 

The fitter said don't worry we will make any cut outs we need.  But I got the distinct impression they would fit the tap to the worktop then notch just enough to get the hoses through.  I like things to be maintainable, and work on the basis that some day someone might want to change the tap and might like easier access.  So I got busy with a saw.

 

The cut out is a bit wider than the sink, and plenty low enough. And by lining the sides and the bottom should ensure when you drop a nut or a washer, it won't end up lost under the unit.

 

That's the boiling water unit sitting in the bottom. It's final location won't be decided until I see the sink and tap in place and see were it best fits.

[Oz07]

I've seen worktop fitters butcher the back of units once or twice. Good choice 

[ProDave]

 

To complete this, the Granite worktops were fitted today, so we are back to a working kitchen, and a boiling water tap (see other thread)

 

 

 

 

[Barney12]

What’s going to sit on the floor section?

[ProDave]

1 hour ago, Barney12 said:

What’s going to sit on the floor section?

The Wood burning stove.  That's the air inlet duct through the wall (taped up).  It had been there previously on a non matching non compliant (too small) slab and in use for last winter.  In fact I have just put it back and for the first time it's on a hearth that complies with building regs.

[Barney12]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

The Wood burning stove.  That's the air inlet duct through the wall (taped up).  It had been there previously on a non matching non compliant (too small) slab and in use for last winter.  In fact I have just put it back and for the first time it's on a hearth that complies with building regs.

nice! 
 

for a moment I thought you had a really posh tumble drier ?

[MJNewton]

Thanks @ProDave for your response to my query on @MikeGrahamT21's blog regarding how undermount sinks are fixed to/in stone worktops. Like you I too had no idea how involved it was. Good to hear such attention to detail though, and I hope that's not fitter specific and you were lucky (ours will, I believe, be installed by Natural Stone Surfaces as we're buying through DIY Kitchens).

 

Even aside from the cutouts I didn't anticipate them making a plywoof mockup. I just assumed there'd be laser measurers and the like but, of course, they've got to fact in non-straight walls as there'll be little opportunity to fettling things once it's delivered.

 

P.S. I remember reading your thread above back in December but it's funny how certain details only jump out at you if you're already thinking about the subject at the time... I was probably on MVHR, resilient bars or home automation at that stage (probably all three!) and was more tuned in to those subjects rather than worktops, sinks and taps like I am now!              

Edited June 23, 2020 by MJNewton