Onoff Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) Effing typical! Take a few days off with a bit of a plan and it all goes t!ts up as something else crops up! So changed a ball joint on the car earlier, tick one job off went for a shower.....lukewarm for some reason. After a bit of investigating in the loft I don't know whether its just the 3-way valve or cylinder that's at fault. This is the hot water cylinder. +18 years old I do know. Hot feed in from the left is too hot to touch for long. Hot out at the top (and off via the Surrey flange / gate valve to the shower pump) is lukewarm / mildly hot at best even if I run the kitchen/bathroom or cloak tap for a while. This is the 28mm 3-way that feeds the cylinder coil and the x2 22mm 2-ways for the upstairs and downstairs CH circuits (I added these two 2-ways as when we bought the place there was no upstairs heating just a single pipe system downstairs). The thing is the auto/manual lever atop the 3-way is "floppy" there's no "resistance" at all when you move it back and forth like with the 2-ways - i.e move lever to auto and you hear it "whine" then let go and it drives back to manual. The 3-way's lever is loose and floppy. I do appear to have up there (no memory why) a spare 22mm 2-way valve that is the same brand as the 3-way (Tower) so I reckon a transplant of the guts might be in order. The word "Syncron" rings a bell with all this? Any suggestions gratefully received! Off to the loft now. I'll have to put that beer off until later I reckon! Maybe I won't be doing the missus's track rod ends and drop links tomorrow! EDIT: BROKEN MECHANICAL BITS IN THE 3-WAY..... Edited October 25, 2016 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 Deffo the valve actuator assembly! A Tower VAL328MP. This fell out when I took it off: Doesn't look like the 2-way actuator would work, wires different etc. Just for now I've cranked the valve over to get it running through the coil to get a tank of hot water (no immersion). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 Wonder if this would fit? http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p28639?table=no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Possibly ... the heads are fairly standard although the length of the valve stem and oddly the screws holding the head on can be different. Is the valve stem easily moved ..? If you can wait then order one next day from BES as they are half that price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) New actuator ordered as per original. With hindsight probably false economy, I should have ordered / replaced the whole thing. I wonder if a "stiff" valve was what killed the actuator? Edited October 25, 2016 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 1 hour ago, PeterW said: Possibly ... the heads are fairly standard although the length of the valve stem and oddly the screws holding the head on can be different. Is the valve stem easily moved ..? If you can wait then order one next day from BES as they are half that price. Read elsewhere the CORGI ones are a bit crap. Not sure ref the valve stem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 27, 2016 Author Share Posted October 27, 2016 New valve fitted and off to try the shower, fingers crossed! Surprised by the minimal "throw" of the valve stem on the 3-port with the actuator removed. Guessing moves between 10 and 2 o'clock? (AND Managed to get the wife's track rod ends, drop links, front pads and exhaust sealing cone washer done beforehand too! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 The only thing missing is a cape ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 27, 2016 Author Share Posted October 27, 2016 8 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: The only thing missing is a cape ?? I was expecting "Stetson & six shooter" Hot water back on btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 7 hours ago, Onoff said: Hot water back on btw. FYI. My combi continued to produce oodles of hot water during this episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share Posted October 28, 2016 2 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: FYI. My combi continued to produce oodles of hot water during this episode. I dream of having "proper" plumbing..... .....a decent roof.....insulation.....level floors.....proper drainage.....landscaping.....etc I can only hope my efforts keep the masses here entertained! Seriously, though a clean slate would be great, we'll never knock down / rebuild. Madam would never go for it. The best I can hope for is that one day we can scaffold over the whole lot, re-roof, EWI etc whilst living in a mobile home on site but basically keep the same structure. Best do that Lotto! Still. it's my own fault, I should have done better at school! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 1 hour ago, Onoff said: I can only hope my efforts keep the masses here entertained! Box ticked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted March 26, 2017 Author Share Posted March 26, 2017 And we're back..... Originally the house had no heating at all upstairs. Just the 4 rooms of the dormer. Downstairs had (still has) the old 3/4" nominal bore single pipe system. After the 3-way valve I "split" the CH into 2, 2-way valves as marked below; CH Upstairs & CH Downstairs: There's no doubt a better way but back then I put a wall stat in the lounge downstairs and a stat in the then one child's bedroom to g'tee his room stayed at the set temperature. I added two 230V contactors. When the room stat calls for heat it switches appropriate Upstairs or D'stairs contactor. That in turn switches the Upstairs or Downstairs 2-way valve (or both) and the rads heat up. The returns of the F/R upstairs and single pipe downstairs systems are commoned up. Noticed by chance of late that if, with both 2-way valves closed I boost the Upstairs CH then the CH Up valve opens as it should and upstairs warms up. BUT.....without the CH Dn valve being open or its contactor made the FIRST rad downstairs gets warm (not hot). Guessing valve CH Dn is letting by? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 I had that in a previous house. THAT is when I learned NEVER EVER have a common return on 2 heating circuits (seemed a great way to save pipe) as the unused heating system seemed to get a bit of convection flow backwards so 1 rad got warm when it should have been off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted March 26, 2017 Author Share Posted March 26, 2017 11 minutes ago, ProDave said: I had that in a previous house. THAT is when I learned NEVER EVER have a common return on 2 heating circuits (seemed a great way to save pipe) as the unused heating system seemed to get a bit of convection flow backwards so 1 rad got warm when it should have been off. Would have expected if that (convection) was the case then for the LAST rad on the single pipe system to be the one getting warm as that is nearest to the commoning point of the two returns. BUT it's the first rad on the single pipe system i.e the first one after the two way valve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Does sound like the 2-port is passing. My mate told me "tee off the return once, then tee off that spur as many times as you like, but don't tee off the return more than once!" He was a wise man, and still is . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted March 26, 2017 Author Share Posted March 26, 2017 OK, here are my "tees": Coming across from the left (under the 2-way valves) is the 28mm return, goes from the bottom of the coil in the cylinder back to the boiler. Marked and coming in from the left is the UPstairs CH return, coming up from the bottom of the photo is the DOWNstairs CH return They both then tee into the 28mm return to the boiler. EDIT: Need to do some more checks. Just realised I've marked those 2-way valves above WRONG!!! CH-DN should be on the left and CH-UP on the right..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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