Day rate labourers

[jayroc2k]

I am costing a renovation and is struggling to get quotes in, the odd quote has no breakdown of the part and hence i am not keen.

 

Excluding electrics and plumbing, a builder I used in the past when he was a small time guy has suggested a day rate for his team, the works are expected to take 5-6 months, if it is 5 month it will be good value, 6 month will be just right, 7 months plus becomes expensive...

 

i am aware that day rate is risky, any thoughts?

[ProDave]

I contest that a day rate gives you best value for money, IF they work all day and don't charge you to sit around drinking tea.

 

As an electrician, it's how I prefer to work.

 

If I have to provide a fixed price, then it will be a higher price, because I have to price in every thing that could make the job difficult. If those difficulties don't arrise then with a fixed price there is no mechanism (or incentive) to charge the job cheaper than the fixed price.

 

It all comes down to trust, do you trust the builder and his team to charge you for hours worked? and keep you informed of how the job is progressing and what difficulties they are encountering?
 

[Barney12]

I would echo what @ProDave has said but also add a very important factor "time". Not the time they charge you but the amount of time you've got to manage them. The key to day rate labour is being absolutely clear on what you want doing, by when and ensuring they do it. 

[ToughButterCup]

2 hours ago, Barney12 said:

. The key to day rate labour is being absolutely clear on what you want doing, by when and ensuring they do it. 

 

Exactly. That's the route we intend to take. I am going to be on site all day: and, as @ProDave says probably drink tea with them. I am hoping that the presence of the paymaster will influence work rates.

Context is important.

 

[Bitpipe]

The only day rate trade we had was our joiner - his work was a good standard but output varied day to day, which can be frustrating to a lay person. Obviously some jobs take more prep than others and communication is key - i.e. what's the plan for today, where do you think you'll be by the end of the week?

 

If your time is free, then it's worth offering to go pick materials up (if practical) and ensure that bigger deliveries are on site on time, otherwise you're paying them to nip to Screwfix or the local yard on your behalf.

 

[joe90]

In fairness when I was a builder some days nothing seems to get done when other days lots get done when in fact you have been just as busy both days. That's why I liked to work on a fixed price ( with a caviet that unforeseen problems are negotiated price wise).

[TerryE]

As @ProDave says it's a combination of relationship / verification plus ownership of risk.  If you are paying a day-rate then the unit of delivery is a reasonable full day's work at an agreed quality, so IMO you should agree what the standard working day / total breaks in the day are.  The workers should still be responsible for delivery to a reasonable standard and rework up that standard isn't on your bill.  

 

As I said on another post we agreed some fixed price packages with our builder and some were based on day rates + costs.  In terms of putting up our stone skin (main over-budget task), the biggest uncertainty was that the cut quality of the local quarried stone was an unknown as this can vary with the seams.  We took this risk.  If we asked our builder to take it then he would have priced it with a 75% chance of covering his costs, and so we would pay a risk premium.  He would also have been very uncomfortable quoting for the work.  It wasn't his fault that the LPA pretty much insisted that we use the locally quarried stone.   The end result is that we have a beautiful looking house with no cut-corners, which is primarily what we were wanting.

 

But as Ian says, our site is adjacent to our existing house and we are on site doing inside works most days.  We make a point of establishing a friendly relationship with all guys working on site, from the little things like a constant refresh of tea/coffee through the day, to being willing to discuss issues and make the best compromises / work-arounds when needed.   My experience of everyone that has worked on our site, is that if they like and respect you and feel that you do likewise, then they will do their damnedest to do a good job that they and we can be proud of.

[jayroc2k]

Many thanks for all the above. 

 

One thing that every contractor/builder we asked to quote said was how impressed they were with the architect's drawings. All main sections in large prints, with text describing things clearly, it's not something they are used to seeing on extensions.