Auto balancing actuators

[recoveringbuilder]

Any opinions on these? Our ufh has no flow meters which oh is not happy about and during his online search he has come across these, does anyone know anything about them?

[MikeSharp01]

Is there a link somewhere.

[Nickfromwales]

3 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Is there a link somewhere.

https://www.wundatrade.co.uk/shop/home/quick-shop/wundatherm-quick-shop/controls-quickshop/actuator-auto-balancing/

 

7 hours ago, Christine Walker said:

Any opinions on these? Our ufh has no flow meters which oh is not happy about and during his online search he has come across these, does anyone know anything about them?

They're the dogs danglies.

I can tell you that the flow meters are OK and reasonably accurate, but always restrict even when you may not want them to ( eg when a large circuit wants more / full bore heat to satisfy the relative stat when other smaller circuits / zones are up to they're required temps already ), but these will give full flow to all circuits until the return temps come back warm, and then they start to strangle back the flow on the circuits that recirculated quickest, eg ones which would otherwise cause potential bypass issues for the larger circuits.

I fit these routinely now where actuators are required, and they are super fast acting too.

10/10 from me.  

[JFDIY]

As above, based on recommendations on this site I bought a set to fit onto my 10year old ufh system, needed to crimp the clips that hold the thermocouples though as mine is on 14mm plastic pipe. Also had to slacken the pump connections and rotate the lower manifold forwards to crate a little extra room as they're a touch bigger than the ones originally fitted.

 

Before I was running in excess of 15degrees difference between flow and return because I'd only ever set the flows to the suppliers minimum rates and never optimised it. Was also running a higher supply temp than I am now.

Since fitting these they hold a steady 7 degrees or so. 

Floors seem to have more warmth.

 

Only downside is very slightly more noise, because the flow meters (on supply side of manifold) seem able to throttle the flow fairly quietly when used, they are redundant now do wide open, but the valves on the return side of the manifold seem to create a little more noise when throttling towards lower flows.

 

They save a lot of time commissioning and as mentioned by @Nickfromwales if heating a cold floor open full flow to start with until they see a rise in return temp then self balance, so the floor warms up quicker.

 

 

 

 

[MikeSharp01]

Is a fixed Delta of 7deg really what is required I wonder. I would have thought that once you reach steady state I think I would expect Dt to be much less than that wouldn't I?

[recoveringbuilder]

thanks for that @Nickfromwales , I may get back to you on this if you don’t mind, we’re currently away in the Lake District for a few days.

[Nickfromwales]

?

[JFDIY]

21 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Is a fixed Delta of 7deg really what is required I wonder. I would have thought that once you reach steady state I think I would expect Dt to be much less than that wouldn't I?

 

Been thinking about this, the actuators can't 'make' temperature so if you left the return thermocouple off completely then  you  would at best achieve zero difference between supply and return.

 

So if you wanted to aim for less than the quoted 7 degrees delta (on systems running above 30 degrees C), then you could add insulative material on the return probe to tune the delta to a lower figure by 'hiding' the real temperature.

 

 

[recoveringbuilder]

So , home again and back to this, hubby decided to phone the aforementioned company to check out if they’d be suitable for our system, sent in photo of our manifold and informed them of the fact we have the Heatmiser neo air stats, here is the answer he got ;

“as a parts only supplier we are happy to supply them to you however what you choose to do with them is your choice, we won’t recommend you fit them to another system however they may well work”

Not a lot of help! Here is a picture of the manifold if @Nickfromwales could have a look and advise please

 

[Jeremy Harris]

I have the Salus auto balancing actuators.  Best thing since sliced bread in my view.  They just work perfectly, quicker to actuate than the wax ones, ensure the flow to the UFH is maximum when the system first switches on, for a fast warm-up, and then they automatically throttle back to maintain a constant temperature difference between flow and return.  This temperature difference depends on the flow temperature.  Below a flow temperature of (I think) 30°C they maintain a 4°C differential, above that I think they maintain a 7°C differential.  We keep our flow below 30°C, as the 4°C differential seems to work very well for our system.

 

I had ordinary wax actuators originally, but these were really slow to open, and meant that the system had to be balanced using the flow control valves, a fiddly and time consuming process to get right.  We initially had problems with our kitchen getting too hot, that took ages to try and get sorted by adjustment, and when I did get the adjustment right the kitchen then took ages to warm up if the heating had been off.  The Salus actuators fixed that, with no manual adjustments being needed at all.  Also quick and easy to fit.  The only downside is that they are a lot more expensive than conventional wax actuators.

[recoveringbuilder]

Yes I think that’s the ones he’d been looking at however they say they’re not compatible with the Heatmiser stats 

[JFDIY]

Only reason would be if the heatmiser ones are a funny voltage? 

The auto balancing ones are available in 24v and 230v versions.

 

So the question is really can you remove one of your existing and see any information relating to the voltage. Or if you have equipment and are competent open up the control centre see if there are any clues, if not turn the heating demand on to a zone and probe the wires going to that zone, start with expecting 230v AC then if no sensible output look for 50v and finally 24v which might be DC.

[recoveringbuilder]

No the Heatmiser are 230v but they are the neo air stats so don’t know if it’s something to do with that

[dpmiller]

stats don't matter as the wiring box interfaces the two ends...

[Nickfromwales]

Are the current actuators 2 wire or 4 wire?

[recoveringbuilder]

 

Not compatible with Heatmiser thermostats

taken from the wundatrade website and the reason hubby got in touch with them but with no success 

[recoveringbuilder]

@Nickfromwales they are 2wire

[Nickfromwales]

If the wiring ctr gives an on / off steady voltage output then there is no reason they won’t work perfectly. 
2-wire do not provide feedback so they’re dumb aka good news. 

[recoveringbuilder]

Ok sounds good, just need to source at a good price now ?

[JFDIY]

£20each or there abouts from Wundafloor if 230v

[recoveringbuilder]

20 minutes ago, JFDIY said:

£20each or there abouts from Wundafloor if 230v

Is that if you register a trade account with them? 

[JFDIY]

Yes, didn't need any business info to register, just did it online. If you buy 30 they're nearer £15.

 

[OldSpot]

@recoveringbuilder Just wondered if you fitted these Salus auto balancing actuators to the Heatmiser and it worked okay?

 

 

Edited November 22, 2020 by OldSpot

[recoveringbuilder]

26 minutes ago, OldSpot said:

@recoveringbuilder Just wondered if you fitted these Salus auto balancing actuators to the Heatmiser and it worked okay?

 

 

Yes we did and they work great 

[Fly100]

Yup got them on mine x12, that said 1 has gone faulty.