I want to use metal pattress boxes... but...

[Carrerahill]

First fix electrical is being finalised over the next 2 days - cables are all in - it's just prepping everything before plasterboard goes up and running any last minute cables (CAT5/RF/Speaker) before the opportunity is gone! 

 

The extension is TF - I know how this is done, I know what is done commercially and what most electricians would fit, but I don't like plastic pattress boxes. I want to use metal back boxes but the mounting situation does always become a little more complicated - I have come up with solutions to fit the odd one or add a couple of sockets before now but not a whole extension. I have 2x6 studs with 4" of rigid insulation between them so I have about 45mm service void then obviously the 12.5mm for the sheet plus a little for skim - so my plan was to go and pickup 35/40mm metal boxes and install them.

 

I have just been onto the site with a 25mm box (all I could find) trying to think of the fastest way to securely mount them and a lot of them! I first picked up a piece of CLS and sort of considered 2 battens to trap the box then screw up and down through the box into the timber - nice solid option - skew-nail the CLS to the studs - OK fine. Due to the locations of the sockets and light switches and things and their proximity to door frames (so twin studs for cripples and kings, trimmers and jacks and what not) there is a myriad of spacings - not always 600mm centres so this becomes a big joinery exercise to make up all the pieces and nail them all in. 

 

I know this is all solved and arguably the first fix electrics are then complete as they are if I simply use plastic but I hate them with a passion - don't make me do it!

 

So what have you guys done - images please. I have seen people use 1x4 1x6 rough and jam that in, set in piece of ply/OSB so I have some options, but just wanted to seek ideas from the general forum on this one. 

 

No pressure, but I start this evening! Ideas and photos please!

 

Thank you all. 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 6, 2019 by Carrerahill

[ProDave]

Just what is it that you have against plastic plasterboard boxes?  I use them almost exclusively. SO much easier.  Now it may be you have used them before and found some of them fall apart, or are fiddly in the extreme and irritate you.  If that is your reason, then you have obviously not tried Appleby dry lining boxes yet.

 

And if you really must have metal, have you considered metal dry lining boxes made by Click Mode. All the benefits of a metal box, all the ease of a plastic box.

 

I dislike metal boxes because 9 times out of 10 the joiners don't cut the hole when fitting the plasterboard and from an electricians point of view it can be a right royal PITA cutting the hole for a box that is already in the wall.

 

If you do go ahead and fit flush boxes, set them 10mm proud of the timber frame to force the joiners to cut the hole as they fit the plasterboard.

[Carrerahill]

1 minute ago, ProDave said:

Just what is it that you have against plastic plasterboard boxes?  I use them almost exclusively. SO much easier.  Now it may be you have used them before and found some of them fall apart, or are fiddly in the extreme and irritate you.  If that is your reason, then you have obviously not tried Appleby dry lining boxes yet.

 

And if you really must have metal, have you considered metal dry lining boxes made by Click Mode. All the benefits of a metal box, all the ease of a plastic box.

 

I dislike metal boxes because 9 times out of 10 the joiners don't cut the hole when fitting the plasterboard and from an electricians point of view it can be a right royal PITA cutting the hole for a box that is already in the wall.

 

If you do go ahead and fit flush boxes, set them 10mm proud of the timber frame to force the joiners to cut the hole as they fit the plasterboard.

 

To be fair I have used Abbleby, among other brands - I just don't like them. The install is fine, not an issue, nice clean job and they do the do, it's down the line when you remove something and the box loosens and you pull cables through them and they move and twist and bend and damage the plasterboard.

 

I just like the solid install that the metal boxes provide and although the plastic ones are self extinguishing and flame retardant plastics, they are still plastic and they still burn and melt - I like knowing that the bit you don't see, is encased in metal. 

 

I'll have a think. I am going to Screwfix about 19:00 tonight so I may just go plastic but it will irritate me! 

 

 

[nod]

24 minutes ago, Carrerahill said:

First fix electrical is being finalised over the next 2 days - cables are all in - it's just prepping everything before plasterboard goes up and running any last minute cables (CAT5/RF/Speaker) before the opportunity is gone! 

 

The extension is TF - I know how this is done, I know what is done commercially and what most electricians would fit, but I don't like plastic pattress boxes. I want to use metal back boxes but the mounting situation does always become a little more complicated - I have come up with solutions to fit the odd one or add a couple of sockets before now but not a whole extension. I have 2x6 studs with 4" of rigid insulation between them so I have about 45mm service void then obviously the 12.5mm for the sheet plus a little for skim - so my plan was to go and pickup 35/40mm metal boxes and install them.

 

I have just been onto the site with a 25mm box (all I could find) trying to think of the fastest way to securely mount them and a lot of them! I first picked up a piece of CLS and sort of considered 2 battens to trap the box then screw up and down through the box into the timber - nice solid option - skew-nail the CLS to the studs - OK fine. Due to the locations of the sockets and light switches and things and their proximity to door frames (so twin studs for cripples and kings, trimmers and jacks and what not) there is a myriad of spacings - not always 600mm centres so this becomes a big joinery exercise to make up all the pieces and nail them all in. 

 

I know this is all solved and arguably the first fix electrics are then complete as they are if I simply use plastic but I hate them with a passion - don't make me do it!

 

So what have you guys done - images please. I have seen people use 1x4 1x6 rough and jam that in, set in piece of ply/OSB so I have some options, but just wanted to seek ideas from the general forum on this one. 

 

No pressure, but I start this evening! Ideas and photos please!

 

Thank you all. 

 

 

 

 

 

38 minutes ago, Carrerahill said:

First fix electrical is being finalised over the next 2 days - cables are all in - it's just prepping everything before plasterboard goes up and running any last minute cables (CAT5/RF/Speaker) before the opportunity is gone! 

 

The extension is TF - I know how this is done, I know what is done commercially and what most electricians would fit, but I don't like plastic pattress boxes. I want to use metal back boxes but the mounting situation does always become a little more complicated - I have come up with solutions to fit the odd one or add a couple of sockets before now but not a whole extension. I have 2x6 studs with 4" of rigid insulation between them so I have about 45mm service void then obviously the 12.5mm for the sheet plus a little for skim - so my plan was to go and pickup 35/40mm metal boxes and install them.

 

I have just been onto the site with a 25mm box (all I could find) trying to think of the fastest way to securely mount them and a lot of them! I first picked up a piece of CLS and sort of considered 2 battens to trap the box then screw up and down through the box into the timber - nice solid option - skew-nail the CLS to the studs - OK fine. Due to the locations of the sockets and light switches and things and their proximity to door frames (so twin studs for cripples and kings, trimmers and jacks and what not) there is a myriad of spacings - not always 600mm centres so this becomes a big joinery exercise to make up all the pieces and nail them all in. 

 

I know this is all solved and arguably the first fix electrics are then complete as they are if I simply use plastic but I hate them with a passion - don't make me do it!

 

So what have you guys done - images please. I have seen people use 1x4 1x6 rough and jam that in, set in piece of ply/OSB so I have some options, but just wanted to seek ideas from the general forum on this one. 

 

No pressure, but I start this evening! Ideas and photos please!

 

Thank you all. 

 

 

 

 

I used metal back boxes for the same reason as you 

[Onoff]

Half the problem is the bodge people make of cutting the plasterboard, it all goes crumbly and they tear the paper holding everything together. Me being me I multi tool the pb then coat the cut edge with neat pva and let it dry. It does wonders for keeping the edges of the hole "together". Impractical where time is of the essence I appreciate! Before the multi tool I would use a sharp Stanley or even better a Knack knife and again pva. (I was taught to use a padsaw - never been keen).

[ProDave]

Who is fitting the plasterboard? Do you trust their workmanship?

 

Properly fitted metal back boxes on noggins with properly and accurately cut holes in the plasterboard is fine.  If you can trust the boarders to cut the holes as they fit the PB then do it.  If they won't cut the holes as they board, then don't (or choose other boarders)

 

AND it is vital you get the noggins parallel to the wall.  A wonky noggin deeper into the wall at one end will yield bad results.

 

It is largely bad experiences with bad boarders that makes me favour dry lining boxes.

[CC45]

I use metal back boxes - I like the solid feel of them when putting plugs in/out but they do take a lot more time than drylining boxes.  If it wasn't my house I'd use the plastic back boxes.

[Carrerahill]

Right, I started on them tonight - well, finalised a plan, clearance after the insulation is 40mm - bought 47mm Appleby boxes, they have small holes all the way around them, I am going to rip or buy some 40mm battens, box will be secured to the stud on one side and a batten will be fixed to the other side which projects up/down to noggins etc. The boxes will be sat to sit proud of the stud @ProDave to force them being neatly cut. Good thing is I will be there and the guy doing it will take instruction - I am actually labouring with him as it's over the weekend. I suppose I will be on electrical cutout duty! 

 

I have pinged the laser around and marked my mounting heights at 400mm, 175mm above counter in the kitchen - this worked well with some noggins -1200m for switches.

 

I agree with you, @Onoff the issue is the install in the first place and I would be using my DeWalt Oscillating tool with the big half circle blade which makes really nice net cuts in PB. 

 

@CC45 hit the nail on the head, I think this is a 'my house' situation - my plan would not be viable for most electricians who would just get annoyed if I made them do this. 

 

Thank you all for your input.

 

I'll post some photos once I get onto this - need to go and solve something with the building control officer who tonight emailed about lateral retaining straps...

Edited November 6, 2019 by Carrerahill
Spelling

[Mally]

6 hours ago, ProDave said:

If you do go ahead and fit flush boxes, set them 10mm proud of the timber frame to force the joiners to cut the hole as they fit the plasterboard.

I love this idea. 

[nod]

5 hours ago, Onoff said:

Half the problem is the bodge people make of cutting the plasterboard, it all goes crumbly and they tear the paper holding everything together. Me being me I multi tool the pb then coat the cut edge with neat pva and let it dry. It does wonders for keeping the edges of the hole "together". Impractical where time is of the essence I appreciate! Before the multi tool I would use a sharp Stanley or even better a Knack knife and again pva. (I was taught to use a padsaw - never been keen).

You should be able to cut the boxes accurately with a pad saw 

Marking on with a pencil 

Just a case of taking your time 

 

[Neil]

.....I have pinged the laser around and marked my mounting heights at 400mm...... I thought that the minimum height for sockets was 450mm from finished floor level,

[ProDave]

If the boxes are proud, offer up the plasterboard and give it a gentle thump around the socket box.  Take it off and you should see the outline of the box imprinted on the back as a template to cut to.

[ProDave]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

.....I have pinged the laser around and marked my mounting heights at 400mm...... I thought that the minimum height for sockets was 450mm from finished floor level,

It's 400 in Scotland, you would need to check Bregs elsewhere.

[Onoff]

Part M...400mm to the bottom of the socket, 1200mm to the top of the light switch.

 

If you want to go 450 it's fine.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Onoff