Heating System Basics...

[Ian]

On 03/11/2019 at 14:53, PeterW said:

What’s the current bulk prices now ..? I saw Calor do their usual pre-cold snap hike a couple of weeks ago. 

We use bulk LPG and I'm currently being offered a deal to switch suppliers at 30p/litre (+5% vat) with a £50 credit for the first order.

 

For a 1000 litre delivery that equals a price of 25p/litre (+5% vat) or £0.036/kWh

 

It's a holiday home completed in 2017 to min Building Regs. We use the LPG for heating (UFH), hot water and cooking. For the last full 12 month period we only used about 400 litres. The tank holds 1200 litres which means we can go for the full 2 year LPG supplier lock-in period without needing to re-fill the tank.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Ian

[Jeremy Harris]

5 minutes ago, Ian said:

We use bulk LPG and I'm currently being offered a deal to switch suppliers at 30p/litre (+5% vat) with a £50 credit for the first order.

 

For a 1000 litre delivery that equals a price of 25p/litre (+5% vat) or £0.036/kWh

 

It's a holiday home completed in 2017 to min Building Regs. We use the LPG for heating (UFH), hot water and cooking. For the last full 12 month period we only used about 400 litres. The tank holds 1200 litres which means we can go for the full 2 year LPG supplier lock-in period without needing to re-fill the tank.

 

 

That seems like a pretty good price; around here people seem to be paying a fair bit more than this.  Maybe it's the famous North/South divide!

[Ian]

2 minutes ago, Jeremy Harris said:

 

 

That seems like a pretty good price; around here people seem to be paying a fair bit more than this.  Maybe it's the famous North/South divide!

Rural North Wales!

[ProDave]

10 minutes ago, Jeremy Harris said:

 

 

That seems like a pretty good price; around here people seem to be paying a fair bit more than this.  Maybe it's the famous North/South divide!

The North South divide works backwards here with bottled LPG being a lot more expensive.

[epsilonGreedy]

1 hour ago, Ian said:

We use bulk LPG and I'm currently being offered a deal to switch suppliers at 30p/litre (+5% vat) with a £50 credit for the first order.

 

....

 

The tank holds 1200 litres which means we can go for the full 2 year LPG supplier lock-in period without needing to re-fill the tank.

 

 

This is important. I have been warned to cost out LPG heating using a worst case price assumption in the flexi period (typically 15 to 18 months) of the two years when the headline fixed rate has expired.

 

You are in the fortunate position of being able to ride out the uncertainty of the flexi price period with a tank that does not require a refill.

 

You post has got me thinking that the optimum time to start an bulk LPG 2-year contract is mid autumn because a 1200l tank filled in October at the fixed teaser rate should last one winter.

 

Edit: 1200l * 6.9 KWH * 0.9 boiler efficiency = 7450 KWH = enough annually for a mid sized new build with half decent insulation. 

Edited November 4, 2019 by epsilonGreedy

[Jeremy Harris]

The main challenge with picking the best time to fill a tank may be that the companies are a bit coy about prices.  If they all made their prices clear, either per litre or per kWh, then it would be a lot easier to see when the best time to buy would be.  When I was looking around to try and find prices a day or so ago, it seemed like hard work, as all the big suppliers wanted a name, address, email etc before they would reveal their prices.  Seemed worse than electricity companies, and they can be pretty obscure when it comes to hiding their tariffs.

[epsilonGreedy]

42 minutes ago, ProDave said:

The North South divide works backwards here with bottled LPG being a lot more expensive.

 

 

I imagine customer density and refinery/pipe to depot distance will influence price. According to these maps Lincolnshire has poor provision of mains gas but lots of scattered rural communities and is well connected = good price.

 

https://www.nongasmap.org.uk

 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Refineries,_fuel_depots_and_pipelines_in_the_UK.GIF

[epsilonGreedy]

37 minutes ago, Jeremy Harris said:

The main challenge with picking the best time to fill a tank may be that the companies are a bit coy about prices. 

 

 

There is clarity at the start of a bulk 2-year contract when the fixed teaser rate is in force. The problem is doing the maths over two years. My bottled LPG delivery driver (too smart for the job) used to work on the customer sales side of bulk LPG and his advice was look into the small print of the flexi price period then assume the worst.

[ProDave]

The problem with bulk LPG is you cannot just get anyone to fill your tank.  That is the bit that should change.  With an oil tank, you can phone all the suppliers to get their price and choose one, and do that every time you fill up using a different supplier each time.  You can even play one against the other to get a better price.

 

The same is true of bottled LPG that only the "owner" of a cylinder can fill it, in spite of a Calor 47Kg cylinder being identical to a Mac Gas one,

[ProDave]

28 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said:

 

I imagine customer density and refinery/pipe to depot distance will influence price. According to these maps Lincolnshire has poor provision of mains gas but lots of scattered rural communities and is well connected = good price.

 

https://www.nongasmap.org.uk

 

That's an interesting map, especially when you zoom in.  95% of properties where I live don't have access to mains gas.  It is also interesting that detached houses outnumber all other types.  VERY different to the statistics in the nearby towns.

 

Oil is the predominant heating type here. No mention of LPG, I take it that is covered by "other" of which there are just 3 houses in our area.

[Jeremy Harris]

It is an interesting map.  These are the details for our area, and I rather suspect they are not at all typical for the country as a whole:

 

 

 

 

[SteamyTea]

Yes, an interesting map.

Can anyone beat my index of multiple deprivation of 40.2

There is a bit of Penzance, that has 67.2, but only 10.2% of properties don't have gas, compared to 67.8% where I am.

Fuel poverty for my area is 21%, for that bit of Penzance it is 20.1%.

 

 

[epsilonGreedy]

On 04/11/2019 at 19:16, Jeremy Harris said:

It is an interesting map.

 

 

Yes though I cannot comment on the veracity of the data. I just bumped into that web site while looking for info on the availability of mains gas near me.

 

On 05/11/2019 at 07:06, SteamyTea said:

Yes, an interesting map.

Can anyone beat my index of multiple deprivation of 40.2

There is a bit of Penzance, that has 67.2, but only 10.2% of properties don't have gas, compared to 67.8% where I am.

Fuel poverty for my area is 21%, for that bit of Penzance it is 20.1%.

 

 

 

Cannot beat that.

 

Non-gas properties: 95.2%

Fuel poverty: 12.7%

Claimant count: 7

I.M. deprivation: 23.7

 

Cornwall has a two-tier economic structure. Yachtsmen get to see places like Fowey and the trendy bar-restaurant culture ashore near Falmouth Marine. I will be spending a week in a cottage next week in Poldark coastal Cornwall with a car so might see the other side. 

[puntloos]

On 04/11/2019 at 18:48, ProDave said:

That's an interesting map, especially when you zoom in.  95% of properties where I live don't have access to mains gas.  It is also interesting that detached houses outnumber all other types.  VERY different to the statistics in the nearby towns.

 

Oil is the predominant heating type here. No mention of LPG, I take it that is covered by "other" of which there are just 3 houses in our area.

Curious that central london has no gas.