PHPP

[Jeremy Harris]

They were, not sure about now.  Here's a copy of the demo PHPP 2007 spreadsheet (rename it from .txt to .xls after download)

 

PHPP2007_English_Demo - Unprotected.txt

[jack]

48 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

I've long thought that the best system would be to just provide past energy bills to potential buyers.  There's no arguing about energy efficiency certification standards, whether short cuts were taken by any certification system, etc, if a seller can just show the actual running cost.

 

My wife and I have discussed using exactly that approach if we ever needed to sell our house. "It's meets several of the passivhaus standard requirements" doesn't mean anything like as much to the average person as "We average £600 a year for all utilities".

 

That said, this approach still assumes that PH is just about energy consumption. I believe the PH people would argue that their methodology includes comfort, building health (eg, thermal bridging managed to avoid condensation problems) and other factors that won't be captured by utility bills.

[PeterW]

1 hour ago, JSHarris said:

They were, not sure about now.  Here's a copy of the demo PHPP 2007 spreadsheet (rename it from .txt to .xls after download)

 

PHPP2007_English_Demo - Unprotected.txt

 

Thanks @JSHarris - did you edit the climate data..??

[Jeremy Harris]

27 minutes ago, PeterW said:

 

Thanks @JSHarris - did you edit the climate data..??

 

 

I can't remember, but I think that copy may be the original demo copy that I downloaded a few years ago, when I was first trying to get to grips with PHPP.  I remember unlocking it so that I could change some of the data, but I think that's all I did, so everything else should be the default data for the demo, but I can't be sure. 

[craig]

I concur with @jack certification process isn't just saying confirming what the PHPP says it is. 

 

The whole process is about using products in the build, that say what supplier claims by using 3rd party certificates and or certified products.

 

Thermal modelling of junctions, openings etc. in the design stage, being on top of what is happening on site, is what has been designed.

 

Deviations can be costly and one of the projects we did recently failed, simply because it wasn't built to the specifications & due care and attention was not paid on site. A costly error to the builder, as part of the planning condition was that it achieved PH standard.

 

Im not saying that houses that have been built using the PH standards are not but how do you know? 

 

So much additional work other than PHPP goes into designing/building a PH. The PHPP only assists the Passiv Haus institute in Darmstadt of certifying. If you can't provide documention from site etc. they won't certify. It's not that costly in the grand scheme of the build and for what they are checking (a lot of hours goes into it).

Edited June 28, 2017 by craig

[Jeremy Harris]

I agree, but it shouldn't be needed, in my view.  If, for example, we followed the lead of countries like Ireland, who now pretty rigidly enforce more stringent building regs than ours, and, in some parts of the country, require new builds to meet passive house standards, then that would achieve the same goal.

 

I have long held the view that all the additional energy efficiency standards that have sprung up (AECB Gold and Silver, PH, etc) are like sticking plasters being applied to massive trauma.  Our building control and inspection regime has been demonstrably ineffective for years, and the tightening standards in the most recent issue of Part L1a was watered down under pressure from industry.  I've done a few thermal imaging surveys on new builds that show a number of failings, plus Paul Buckingham from the AECB has written two papers on his findings from surveys that add much more weight to this point:

 

http://www.aecb.net/publications/we-must-change-our-disgraceful-approach-to-build-quality-or-wave-goodbye-to-energy-savings/

http://www.aecb.net/still-taking-disgraceful-approach-build-quality-waving-goodbye-energy-savings/

 

If we just enforced current regulations there would be a significant improvement in new build energy performance, I'm sure.

 

When it comes to knowing whether your self-build meets the PH standard or not then it isn't really rocket science.  You start with a design that eliminates thermal bridging, has designed-in airtightness provision, has glazing that provides the right balance between solar gain and winter heat loss and ensure there is an adequate level of insulation for the volume to surface area of the house.  The rest is just detail, low energy lights, low heat loss DHW system, selecting the right size and efficiency of heat recovery ventilation system, etc. 

 

If someone like me, with zero building design and construction experience, other than a bit of DIY renovation, can design a house, model it's performance, select the construction system and specify and install all the required elements and systems, and end up with a house that easily meets the PH standard, then I'm sure it really isn't that hard to do, if the will is there.

[craig]

If the will is there.

 

I whole heartedly agree, the will isn't there because builders / companies can currently build to building regs and don't want to or can't be bothered to learn the skill sets required 

 

It isn't rocket science, it's just common sense imho.

 

The big issue that is the stumbling block is supply and demand. The demand is not that huge and therefore the supply costs are bigger which affects the cost pper sqm. The more demand, the less it should cost and everyone benefits.

Edited June 28, 2017 by craig

[Russdl]

16 hours ago, craig said:

So much additional work other than PHPP goes into designing/building a PH. The PHPP only assists the Passiv Haus institute in Darmstadt of certifying. If you can't provide documention from site etc. they won't certify. It's not that costly in the grand scheme of the build and for what they are checking (a lot of hours goes into it).

 

Craig, does the PHPP get checked prior to the build commencing?

 

I'm having sleepless nights wondering what would have happened had I not spotted the error in our PHPP and gone ahead and built a house to Passive standards using a PHPP model that was incorrectly orientated by 60º. If the Passiv Haus institute check the PHPP prior to the build commencing it's starting to look like a pretty good investment from my perspective.

 

Russ

[craig]

@Russdl It is usually your certifier that checks the PHPP before building commences, it is usually tweaked before hand but the institute don't "check it" until is due for certification.

 

The certifier will usually be in converse with them when and if need be, during initial stages and throughout the build but a full check is not done until certification.

 

It's the certifiers responsibility to ensure it's correct and it's the architects/contractors/clients responsibility to ensure evidence is taken and remedial work taken where and when appropriate.

 

That "may" prove problematic if the architect is not Passive House certified as they may miss things a certified PH architect shouldn't.

Edited June 29, 2017 by craig

[Russdl]

@craig Thanks for info.

 

I'm still undecided about certification, and now, after a bit of a scare from my (ex)PHPP consultant, I'm going to go 'solo' on the software and see how I get on...

[Stones]

@craig  Is there any restriction on someone setting themselves up as a PHPP 'consultant' if all they are doing is buying the software and providing a fill in the form service?  I assume the certifier you refer to will be PH trained / approved / accredited? 

 

On 6/28/2017 at 12:17, JSHarris said:

I've long thought that the best system would be to just provide past energy bills to potential buyers.  There's no arguing about energy efficiency certification standards, whether short cuts were taken by any certification system, etc, if a seller can just show the actual running cost.

 

I think this would be of far more relevance / understandable to most home buyers - say up to three years worth of bills to give a reasonable picture.

[craig]

1 hour ago, Stones said:

Is there any restriction on someone setting themselves up as a PHPP 'consultant' if all they are doing is buying the software and providing a fill in the form service?  I assume the certifier you refer to will be PH trained / approved / accredited

 

In life you get unscrupulous people, who can claim to be something they are not.

 

To be a certifier isn't easy, the training/exam is not easy.

 

A list of accredited certifiers can be found here http://www.passiv.de/en/03_certification/02_certification_buildings/03_certifiers/01_accredited/01_accredited.php

 

1 hour ago, Russdl said:

I'm still undecided about certification, and now, after a bit of a scare from my (ex)PHPP consultant, I'm going to go 'solo' on the software and see how I get on...

 

It's a scary process but if you need assistance, I can put you in touch with a certifier and or PH consultant/Architect, who I respect and trust and who I know, know what they are doing and been in the game a while.

[Russdl]

1 hour ago, craig said:

A list of accredited certifiers can be found here http://www.passiv.de/en/03_certification/02_certification_buildings/03_certifiers/01_accredited/01_accredited.php

 

 

@craig Well, thats my 'due diligence' done a little to late! The first of many lessons for me perhaps.

 

1 hour ago, craig said:

It's a scary process but if you need assistance, I can put you in touch with a certifier and or PH consultant/Architect, who I respect and trust and who I know, know what they are doing and been in the game a while.

 

Hahaha, thanks for the encouragement!

 

I'm going to have a go at the designPH as well as it's already modelled in Sketchup - I'll let you know how it goes...

[gravelld]

How much did you have to pay for designPH as a "normal" like me? I'm guessing we have to pay the "professionals" rate?

[Russdl]

@gravelld The PHPP plus designPH is coming out at €439 from passivehouse.com, though I'm still waiting for the email bill to confirm my order - a cooling off period maybe!?!

 

That's a few bob less than my "consultant" was going to charge, and he hasn't/won't be paid so I'm looking forward to the challenge...

 

With a little bit of trepidation.