willbish Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 I found this picture on instagram interesting as Im soon to start a similar roof build up. They've cut hundreds of small pieces instead of using lengths as counter batten. Is the ventilation advantage worth the extra work? Its an Australian build but don't they need to use treated timber I'll be using GSE solar mounts and this method would work i think, and potentially allow increased ventilation and performance of PV panels. What do you reckon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) yes no reason why not --but suprised not treated as australia has termites does it not bigger size batons than we use --looks like 2 x1-- maybe want bigger air gap from tiles due to hot temps in summer don,t think it would be cheaper must be big tiles looking at spacing vertically -- but if aus guessing its a tin roof Edited October 23, 2019 by scottishjohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Barn Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Hi mate, surely that would take so much longer for not much gain in ventilation? Need to spend less time on istagram and more time on the roof! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Perhaps they just had a load of offcuts left over and an apprentice carpenter needing a job :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 1 hour ago, scottishjohn said: must be big tiles looking at spacing vertically -- but if aus guessing its a tin roof Their Instagram page says Lower roof #wrb installed thanks to @carlo.vavallo (the #airtightness sensation). Battens at 450mm centers as this is only a 4 degree roof with #trimdeck roofing being installed. We don’t want any kinks in the roof. All done with #sigatape . Nearly ready for roof! #craftsmenqualitybuilders #passivehouse #passivhaus and #wrb installed on upper roof thanks to @wilburpomorin and @bren_hales - the boys have an excellent job! Some serious counter battens as we felt this was the most cost effective option. Still some taping to go and fascia and we’re ready for a #roof #craftsmenqualitybuilders #passivhaus #passivehouse #airtight #sigatape Trimdek is indeed metal sheeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sam Barn said: Hi mate, surely that would take so much longer for not much gain in ventilation? Need to spend less time on istagram and more time on the roof! more than twice the gap of a 45mm baton --and some use 38mm batons don,t see why it would take any longer at all--but not treated --idon,t like that chalk line the verticals and put straps where you need them Edited October 23, 2019 by scottishjohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willbish Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Sam Barn said: Hi mate, surely that would take so much longer for not much gain in ventilation? Need to spend less time on istagram and more time on the roof! Stuck on this bleddy tugboat so no chance of any roofing again today. I don't doubt it would take an age. Especially as my batten spacing is 190mm for slates. Just wondering why these guys thought it was a worthwhile use of their time. Perhaps the ventilation is a lot better. I think the ends of the batten would regularly split when fixing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North80 Posted November 9 Share Posted November 9 (edited) On lots of roofing youtube videos I always see comments from non-British people commenting that they can't believe so many British roofers don't use counter battens. It seems like almost everywhere else counter battens are standard practice, but not in the UK for some reason. Why is it that so many British roofers don't counter batten? They're in NHBC standards: https://nhbc-standards.co.uk/7-roofs/7-2-pitched-roofs/7-2-17-battens/ Edited November 9 by North80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted November 9 Share Posted November 9 5 hours ago, North80 said: Why is it that so many British roofers don't counter batten? because they are lazy, tight fisted idiots there are no technical advantaghes to use single batons ,only disadvantages 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted November 9 Share Posted November 9 I was always told (rightly or wrongly) that without counter battens the felt or membrane is draped between rafters to enable moisture to run down to the gutter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G and J Posted November 9 Share Posted November 9 10 minutes ago, joe90 said: I was always told (rightly or wrongly) that without counter battens the felt or membrane is draped between rafters to enable moisture to run down to the gutter. That’s exactly what our architect told me. I had a little wobble, thinking that meant a slack lightweight underlay which would billow noisily in the wind and be more likely to allow crap to collect next to where the horizontal battens cross the trusses. I also definitely like the idea that counter-battens help cool solar panels. But I’ve other things to worry about for now. Sometimes, it’s tempting to give in to the inertia of the ‘everyone does it this way’ and save one’s energy for other debates. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted November 9 Share Posted November 9 20 minutes ago, joe90 said: I was always told (rightly or wrongly) that without counter battens the felt or membrane is draped between rafters to enable moisture to run down to the gutter. that is fine if you do not have sarking board or plywood sheeting --but not with it and certainlt not in high wind areas like scotland and cetrainly not if you are using a warm roof shit and moisture gathers up the back of them over time and causes rot Iwould worry using modern flimsey trusses without plywood sheeting to give wind bracing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G and J Posted November 9 Share Posted November 9 2 minutes ago, scottishjohn said: that is fine if you do not have sarking board or plywood sheeting --but not with it and certainlt not in high wind areas like scotland and cetrainly not if you are using a warm roof shit and moisture gathers up the back of them over time and causes rot Iwould worry using modern flimsey trusses without plywood sheeting to give wind bracing In fairness our current house has modern flimsy trusses and we are classified as being extreme exposure here so we had to nail the tiles loads. Never detected any movement in the roof. Mind you, this roof is heavy both sides, our new roof will be lighter one side than the other due to solar panels replacing slates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted November 9 Share Posted November 9 5 minutes ago, G and J said: Mind you, this roof is heavy both sides, our new roof will be lighter one side than the other due to solar panels replacing slates. and it will be a cold roof system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted November 9 Share Posted November 9 47 minutes ago, scottishjohn said: that is fine if you do not have sarking board or plywood sheeting Of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted November 9 Share Posted November 9 We counter battened. I like that it pinches the membrane continuously along the line of the rafters (or trusses) and gives it much more strength. I think a layer of even 9mm OSB sarking would be nice in hindsight as the membrane does flap a small bit in windy weather. Interestingly I don't know if this would happen without the counter battens. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G and J Posted November 9 Share Posted November 9 Are you saying counter battens might be making the flapping worse or the noise from the flapping worse (or both)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted November 10 Share Posted November 10 I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted November 10 Share Posted November 10 I was shocked when I moved to England and found that timber sarking is not required. I used it on a garage anyway, to the surprise of the bco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted November 10 Share Posted November 10 18 hours ago, North80 said: Why is it that so many British roofers don't ...know or care much about roof and quality. I think it is because it is up high and scary. They get the job because they will do it. Their work often goes unchecked. I had one who didn't even know how to lap felt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted November 10 Share Posted November 10 It's probably twice the price of doing it with one layer of battens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G and J Posted November 10 Share Posted November 10 3 hours ago, saveasteading said: ...know or care much about roof and quality. I think it is because it is up high and scary. They get the job because they will do it. Their work often goes unchecked. I had one who didn't even know how to lap felt. I think that’s rather a harsh generalisation. I’ve mixed it with three roofers over the years who have been excellent and determined to do a good job. The others I’ve interacted with have been ok but not really pushing the extra mile, but my experience is still overall, very positive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted November 10 Share Posted November 10 Very glad to hear it. I know there are good ones, and that it is a generalisation and harsh on them. But I have come across real cowboys as well as ignorant ones. They perhaps specialise in selecting the vulnerable public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted November 10 Share Posted November 10 1 hour ago, Iceverge said: It's probably twice the price of doing it with one layer of battens. but twice the protection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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