To ask or not to ask for my application fee back? That is the question.

[Dreadnaught]

Advice please. Should I claim back my planning application fee, or not so as to be kind to my planning officer (who I rather like)? 

 

I spoke to my planning officer today and said that I was thinking of asking for my fee back. He said it was my right to do so but he would prefer if I didn't.

 

Background

1. My planning application was made in January this year. Because of over work and short staff my application has taken an age. And at no stage was I asked to extend the planning deadline.
2. Under the regulations* my planning application fee must be refunded if it all takes more than 26 weeks, which it has.
3. My application is at long last going to committee shortly and the planning department have said they are recommending its approval.

So what to do? Claim the fee back, or don't so as to be kind and maybe generate some goodwill?

 

* regulation 9A of the 2012 Fees Regulations of the The Town and Country Planning (Fees for Applications, Deemed Applications, Requests and Site Visits) (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2013.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Dreadnaught

[Ferdinand]

Get it approved first, then reflect.

[newhome]

9 minutes ago, Dreadnaught said:

So what to do? Claim the fee back, or don't so as to be kind and maybe generate some goodwill?

 

 

Wait until it's approved and them claim it back! 

[newhome]

Just now, Ferdinand said:

Get it approved first, then reflect.

 

Ha, posted at the same time! 

[Dreadnaught]

Oh, is it possible to claim it back afterwards, I didn't know that.

[newhome]

2 minutes ago, Dreadnaught said:

Oh, is it possible to claim it back afterwards, I didn't know that.

 

No idea but why wouldn't it be? 

[Jeremy Harris]

I'd have a think about the consequences.  I would guess that if you used your entitlement to claim the fee back, then you would be granted it.  However, there may well be a process within the local authority that gets set in motion by refunding a fee under these circumstances, and that process may well include a review of the performance of the planning officer that dealt with your application.  This could possibly have an adverse impact on him, so the judgement call is really whether or not you feel that he needs to be brought to task for the apparent mishandling of your application or not.

 

 

[Bitpipe]

24 minutes ago, Dreadnaught said:

Oh, is it possible to claim it back afterwards, I didn't know that.

 

Yup - we did this with our planning conditions discharge. 

 

Took 12 weeks to get confirmation, way past the 8 week limit, so when it was signed off we asked for a refund and got it - was only £95 (as we did all the conditions in one shot) but was principal that counted - the lost 4 weeks did knock our schedule a bit.

 

I think the dept were just understaffed at that point and overwhelmed with applications.

[Bitpipe]

23 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

I'd have a think about the consequences.  I would guess that if you used your entitlement to claim the fee back, then you would be granted it.  However, there may well be a process within the local authority that gets set in motion by refunding a fee under these circumstances, and that process may well include a review of the performance of the planning officer that dealt with your application.  This could possibly have an adverse impact on him, so the judgement call is really whether or not you feel that he needs to be brought to task for the apparent mishandling of your application or not.

 

If the delay is due to understaffing, then the LA are expecting the end customer to take the hit  - which is not on for a paid service. Until they see some pain (refunded fees) where is the motivation to improve the situation.

 

When I worked as a grad SW developer, we were dependent on a US team completing their base work before we could build on top. Every release, the US team would release their code 2-3 weeks after the agreed date which screwed our schedule so we would work evenings, weekends and cancel holiday and training to keep to our dates.

 

We were not allowed to add a 'late handover' buffer as the senior management reviewed all plans for such padding, however as the ball to customer never got dropped, there was no motivation to fix the issue (under resourced US team). After a few releases, our manager got fed up and when the next handover was two weeks late, he threw our plan out by two weeks which caused all sorts of chaos, warnings of penalties etc. but he stood his ground. 

 

Next release and everyone after that arrived to us bang on time - if it doesn't get broken it doesn't get fixed.

[Moonshine]

I would suggest waiting for an outcome, and only reclaim back if it is refused, and there is no chance of any development going ahead, otherwise i think that you may be cutting your nose to spite you face.

 

Though i watch with interest as my application may end up being 26+ weeks from validation to decision.

[the_r_sole]

.

Edited September 26, 2019 by the_r_sole

[Moonshine]

Interesting to see that the 26 week period does not apply unless a longer period has been agreed in writing between the applicant and the local planning authority (source https://www.gov.uk/guidance/fees-for-planning-applications#Planning-Guarantee).

 

This to me means that even if the agent (e.g. the architect) without written agreement from the applicant says yes to an extension, the 26 week period is still valid.

 

My understanding is the only way to agree an extension is the LPA must have confirmation from the applicant, not by their agent.

 

 

[ToughButterCup]

Claim it back.

And write your Planner a hand-written thank you letter (irrespective of the outcome). 

A balanced , but fair approach, I think.

[Jeremy Harris]

12 minutes ago, AnonymousBosch said:

Claim it back.

And write your Planner a hand-written thank you letter (irrespective of the outcome). 

A balanced , but fair approach, I think.

 

 

Sounds a good compromise.  I was really pleased with the way our planning officer handled our application.  It was late, due to lack of resources in the planning department (one of the planning officers had recently left and not been replaced).  The planning officer kept me informed, answered questions readily and was helpful when we ran into a conditions conflict between the EA and highways.  He was also pragmatic when dealing with my requests to change some of the external finishes and materials, and dealt with them on the basis of me sending him photos.  He also agreed, at the last minute (due to the delay between the end of the consultation period and the recommendation going to his boss for review and final sign off) to my request that the condition removing PD rights wasn't justified, and deleted it without question.

 

Despite the delay in sending out our decision notice (it was around 3 weeks late) I mentioned the planning officers name to the council chief exec, telling her that I was impressed with his service (in the hope that it might get back to him).  I felt that 99% of the problems in the planning department were caused by under resourcing, at every level.  It took weeks to validate a pretty straightforward application, a delay that I'm convinced was just being used as a way to control workflow, and delayed again after the planning officer had made his recommendation and written the draft decision notice (which I obtained unofficially, with a strong proviso).

[Dreadnaught]

Original poster here. Thanks everyone. Very helpful indeed. I will await the final planning decision and only then consider action.

 

Much appreciated as always!

[Ferdinand]

Questions

 

1 - How far back does this go? Can you claim back eg for a Planning Decision in 2015 that was 2 months late?

2 - Is it negated or extended if an extension agreement with the Council has been requested and accepted?

 

maybe @Sensus might know.

 

Ferdinand

[Moonshine]

14 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

1 - How far back does this go? Can you claim back eg for a Planning Decision in 2015 that was 2 months late?

2 - Is it negated or extended if an extension agreement with the Council has been requested and accepted?

 

From what i have read (1) there is no time limit, (2) it is negated if any extension is agreed for a date after the 26 week period. This has to be a written agreement between the applicant and the LPA.

 

An interesting thing i have been told by a planning consultant i know, is that you can agree an extension, but if that extension date is within the 26 week period, and they still miss the 26 weeks without a agreed further extension over the 26 weeks, then the refund is still valid, though i think i need a second opinion on that one.

 

I spoke to my architect this morning, and this refund issue was a new one on him as he has never had a planning app go on this long, and the LPA currently haven't asked for an extension.

Edited September 20, 2019 by Moonshine

[Dreadnaught]

An update from the original poster here.

 

Following my request on 15 November, and with just a little prompting, my local planning department has today confirmed that my planning fee will be refunded (via the Planning Portal).

 

Thanks again everyone for your advice!

 

What happened was that after I had received planning approval (I spoke at the planning meeting and witnessed the unanimous vote in favour) but before receiving the formal letter from the head of the planning department, my planning officer emailed as follows:

 

Quote

[The head of the planning department] will be signing off the decision notices over the next few days and has asked that I request and Extension of time until 13.11.19 to enable the decision to be issued. I would be grateful if you would confirm that you are in agreement with the request.

 

Following your collective advice, I of course politely declined to confirm any such thing.

 

And as soon as I received the decision letter, I emailed asking for my fee to be refunded.

[Bitpipe]

1 hour ago, Dreadnaught said:

An update from the original poster here.

 

Following my request on 15 November, and with just a little prompting, my local planning department has today confirmed that my planning fee will be refunded (via the Planning Portal).

 

Thanks again everyone for your advice!

 

What happened was that after I had received planning approval (I spoke at the planning meeting and witnessed the unanimous vote in favour) but before receiving the formal letter from the head of the planning department, my planning officer emailed as follows:

 

 

Following your collective advice, I of course politely declined to confirm any such thing.

 

And as soon as I received the decision letter, I emailed asking for my fee to be refunded.

 

Well done, I had similar experience with conditions discharge before commencing work - although my saving was £95 as I took @Jeremy Harris advice and submitted a response to all in one shot.

 

Totally agree that LA and planners are underfunded and over-worked, however if there is no counter effect (such as refunded fees) then there is little incentive to change or data to support such a change. That said, I doubt the handful of refunded fees would add up too much.

[Moonshine]

Nice one @Dreadnaught, and good to hear that they have refunded it. I am about to get my planning application approval and they haven't asked for an extension, so it looks like i am valid for a refund. Out of interest can you share how you worded the email you sent to them?

 

On 26/11/2019 at 13:49, Bitpipe said:

Totally agree that LA and planners are underfunded and over-worked, however if there is no counter effect (such as refunded fees) then there is little incentive to change or data to support such a change. That said, I doubt the handful of refunded fees would add up too much.

 

I agree, and my planning case officer has been pretty good, apart from the timescales (oh and a scheme re-design) and i have been pro-active in trying to get things moving.

 

In the grand scheme of things individual application fees for minor developments don't add up to much, but to an individual they can be significant, if i get a refund its a 14% saving to my total planning costs, which isn't to be sniffed at.

Edited December 2, 2019 by Moonshine

[Dreadnaught]

Sure @Moonshine. I'll send you a PM.