Kinetic Wireless Switches

[efunc]

I've got no electrical knowledge but need to design a lighting scheme for my outdoor space and garden room. This structure is about 10-12m across the patio from my kitchen. I would like to control the outside lights from a switch in my kitchen, but also like to have a switch on the right wall of that garden room, in the open storage area, to control them from there too:

 

 

 

I already have a outdoor 2-way 2-gang light switch to go on that side wall, but I've been looking at Quinetic Wireless Switches and wonder if they could be a solution? They are not outdoor switches, but it could potentially go in the kitchen to control that side. Do they do 2-way switches, and if so, does the other side also have to be Quinetic Switch, or can it be a standard one with a receiver in circuit? 

[Temp]

Here..

 

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Wiring_Accessories_Menu_Index/Quinetic/index.html?ad_position=1t1&source=adwords&ad_id=187179140871&placement=&kw=wireless lighting&network=g&matchtype=p&ad_type=&product_id=&product_partition_id=&version=finalurl_v3&gclid=CjwKCAjwtuLrBRAlEiwAPVcZBuT2Wy1yNuY7DfPWjNcoEugZGHkeEbr7wOQ9uKew5qu1ReUS9nnOxRoCTYIQAvD_BwE

 

It says they are IP67 rated so should be ok outdoors.

 

To do the two way switching I believe you need one of these combined "Wireless Switch & Built In Receivers" on the outside of the garden room controlling the lights.

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/QURS1W.html

It says these "facilitate[e] additional wireless two way or more switches to the circuit."

 

Then you need one of these in the kitchen..

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/QUWS1W.html

to allow them to be controlled from there as well.

 

 

Edit: Both of the above are one gang but I see they also do two gang versions of both - so the lights in the garden room could be controlled independently to the lights outside the garden room. Both lots of lights also controlled from both locations.

 

 

Edited September 11, 2019 by Temp

[PeterW]

Qinetic also do a flood light with built in receiver if you need more light with less wires. They can be switched by up to 24 switches from memory and make a really simple retrofit solution. 

[efunc]

Thank you both! I will investigate your links tonight. In the meantime, this vid at about 3min 30" suggests this can be done with a normal switch in the garden and kinetic one in the house:

 

 

Edited September 11, 2019 by efunc

[Temp]

3min 30" suggests this can be done with a normal switch in the garden and kinetic one in the house:

 

Yes although what he actually has is a normal switch AND a Qinetic Receiver in the "shed"  plus a Qinetic Transmitter in the house.

 

 

 

[efunc]

1 hour ago, Temp said:

Yes although what he actually has is a normal switch AND a Qinetic Receiver in the "shed"  plus a Qinetic Transmitter in the house.

 

Yes, that's similar to what I'm after. I have a BG Electrical Weatherproof 2Gang Light Switch to go on the side of the garden room under that covered area:

 

 

One switch will control all the outside lights of the garden. The other switch will control just 4 downlights in that covered area. But I also want to control the garden lights from inside the house. For that purpose I was hoping to put a Kinetic switch in the kitchen and a receiver wired to the BG Electrical Switch, similar to the video. I'm hoping that would work, although I don't know if the receiver needs its own junction box, or can fit within the housing of the BG Electrical Switch.

 

The ones I ordered are not Quinetic, but these ones on eBay, which seem similar:  Cürv 

 

They also sell the same items branded as 'Cürv' for 10x the price, and they look identical, but have a 5 year warranty.

 

I've also realised that there's no such thing as 2-way or 1-way with these switches. Since any number of switches can control a light circuit or one switch can control multiple receivers there's no limitation. You just buy as many as you need and place them where you want I presume?

Edited September 12, 2019 by efunc

[Onoff]

I'd throw the BG switch away. You can do it all with the Quinetic stuff.

 

Could do it with one 1-gang switch in the kitchen and a 2-gang switch with built in receiver under the covered area (where the BG one was going to go). But.....if you use a 2-gang with built in receiver it needs hard wiring. 

 

Do you fancy having the 4 downlights dimmable?

 

Then one 1-gang switch in kitchen. A 2-gang under the covered area.

 

One switched receiver for garden lighting + one dimmable receiver for downlights.

 

 

[efunc]

13 minutes ago, Onoff said:

I'd throw the BG switch away. You can do it all with the Quinetic stuff.

 

Could do it with one 1-gang switch in the kitchen and a 2-gang switch with built in receiver under the covered area (where the BG one was going to go). But.....if you use a 2-gang with built in receiver it needs hard wiring. 

 

Do you fancy having the 4 downlights dimmable?

 

Then one 1-gang switch in kitchen. A 2-gang under the covered area.

 

One switched receiver for garden lighting + one dimmable receiver for downlights.

 

 

Thanks. The BG one will be wired anyway. It would be nice to have them dimmable because I've got dimmable LEDs to go in the side overhang. However I thought I'd probably need an IP65 switch because that area is open to the elements to some extent. The Cürv receivers I bought aren't dimmable as far as I know, and the 3-gang switch I bought is for interior use not outside (it's 3-gang because I'll also use it for my garage lights and outdoor lights. I could risk having one outside though because it will be fairly well covered. But I'm also unsure how well the dimmable receivers play with the LED bulbs. There could be potential incompatibilities, and I've not seen any particular reviews of the Quinetic stuff used in this way. Have you had good experience?

[Onoff]

47 minutes ago, efunc said:

Thanks. The BG one will be wired anyway. It would be nice to have them dimmable because I've got dimmable LEDs to go in the side overhang. However I thought I'd probably need an IP65 switch because that area is open to the elements to some extent. The Cürv receivers I bought aren't dimmable as far as I know, and the 3-gang switch I bought is for interior use not outside (it's 3-gang because I'll also use it for my garage lights and outdoor lights. I could risk having one outside though because it will be fairly well covered. But I'm also unsure how well the dimmable receivers play with the LED bulbs. There could be potential incompatibilities, and I've not seen any particular reviews of the Quinetic stuff used in this way. Have you had good experience?

 

A number of us here use Quinetic. All good. I've one next to the bath:

 

Bloody typical, when I bought it the only IP67 switches came in this grey. Not too obtrusive with the grey in the mosaics but I might have gone for white had it been available.

 

 

You've only just now mentioned a 3-gang switch unless I'm mistaken?

 

Quinetic do a 3-gang IP67 switch btw. (IP67's better than IP65 )

 

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/QUWS3W.html

 

As an aside I THINK that ENER-J stuff might be made in the same factory and use the same protocols as Quinetic:

 

https://www.ener-j.co.uk/products/cat/wireless-switches-

 

Also that they might (could be wrong) both be made by Baydo IOT Technology Shenzhen Co.Ltd

 

 

Edited September 12, 2019 by Onoff

[efunc]

Great advice, I think this is really the solution to pursue. I wish I hadn't ordered the switch and receivers today now, I'll pay the extra and get the quinetic stuff if it's IP rated and dimmable.

 

As an aside, I don't suppose you'd know if different manufacturers switches/receivers can work together, if if you have to stick with one system?

[Jeremy Harris]

FWIW, I have two sets of lights on two way switching, using the standard Quinetic stuff.  Each receiver can be programmed to work from several switches very easily (can't remember how many, but more than most would ever need).  In our kitchen I have two sets of lights, each with a single receiver, and two sets of double gang Quinetic dimming switches^[1].  The receivers are programmed so that the left hand switch of either of the two switches operates one set of lights, the right hand switches control the other set of lights.  Two way switching works seamlessly, we can use either switch to switch lights on or off.

 

 

¹  The reason for choosing the dimmer switch, but not the dimmer receiver, was to make two way switching work seamlessly, and to allow the switches to always look the same whether on or off, as they lose their position memory if the power goes off (when power comes back on after a power outage the receivers stay switched off until a switch is operated).  A feature that Quinetic don't advertise is that the retractive/momentary dimmer switches work perfectly well with the non-dimming receivers.

[Onoff]

34 minutes ago, efunc said:

As an aside, I don't suppose you'd know if different manufacturers switches/receivers can work together, if if you have to stick with one system?

 

No sorry don't know. What I'll do though is give one of my spare Quinetic switches to a mate who's bought a Qunetic "copy" and get him to try it with his receiver.

[Onoff]

12 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

A feature that Quinetic don't advertise is that the retractive/momentary dimmer switches work perfectly well with the non-dimming receivers.

 

I think they do now. If you recall I thought it might work like this and queried it at a TLC branch (Medway). They admitted they didn't know but that it was a good question. They then proceeded to get all the parts out and we tried it on the bench. The guy who did it was calling the other staff over saying "Come and look at this!". Sure they've updated their bumpf since. 

[Jeremy Harris]

2 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

I think they do now. If you recall I thought it might work like this and queried it at a TLC branch (Medway). They admitted they didn't know but that it was a good question. They then proceeded to get all the parts out and we tried it on the bench. The guy who did it was calling the other staff over saying "Come and look at this!". Sure they've updated their bumpf since. 

 

 

Thanks, I remember that now, it's what gave me the confidence to just order them from TLC and risk it, IIRC.  It is a very neat solution, especially if you like switches to look neat.  Two way switching with normal switches always offends my eye, as inevitably you end up with one of the switches in the "wrong" position (i.e. American style, up for on).

[efunc]

42 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

What I'll do though is give one of my spare Quinetic switches to a mate who's bought a Qunetic "copy" and get him to try it with his receiver.

 

Thanks! That will be really handy to know.

[Onoff]

My mate fitted this:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B075SBRH7F?ref_=pe_3187911_248764861_302_E_DDE_dt_1

[Ed Davies]

4 hours ago, JSHarris said:

Each receiver can be programmed to work from several switches very easily (can't remember how many, but more than most would ever need).

 

10. Indeed, hard to image a case where more would be needed.

 

https://www.quinetic.co.uk/products/rf-receiver/

[Temp]

Just now, efunc said:

For that purpose I was hoping to put a Kinetic switch in the kitchen and a receiver wired to the BG Electrical Switch, similar to the video. I'm hoping that would work, although I don't know if the receiver needs its own junction box, or can fit within the housing of the BG Electrical Switch.

 

As I recall there isn't much space in most waterproof switches like the BG. Its hard to tell from the video but I reckon you will need a separate junction box.

[efunc]

14 hours ago, Onoff said:

My mate fitted this:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B075SBRH7F?ref_=pe_3187911_248764861_302_E_DDE_dt_1

 

In one of the questions posted for that Amazon product someone asks "Can this be used in the UK"
and the answer: "Yes. And you can mix brands that look the same "

 

Which is ambiguous, but promising. I guess if nothing else, they can be swapped out later, or added to, as newer/better products are released.

[efunc]

12 hours ago, Temp said:

 

As I recall there isn't much space in most waterproof switches like the BG. Its hard to tell from the video but I reckon you will need a separate junction box.

 

Yes, thanks. Fitting an extra JB is probably the best idea anyway. I asked Curv, who sell their stuff on eBay, if they had any dimmable products available. Their answer is "Unfortunately we do not sell these, we will be launching a line of color changing bulbs soon in which can be controlled via a mobile app, this will allow for dimming and color changing."

[Onoff]

My mate tried that switch:

 

"That Quinetic switch paired with the Thinkbee (receiver) no problem ?"

 

Edited September 13, 2019 by Onoff

[Ed Davies]

That's a pleasant surprise. But then they're probably the same Chinese modules inside anyway.

[efunc]

Well, I hope this is OK, a few months down the line and I'm having to revive this thread because I've a bit of a brick wall. I've completed my garden room and the wiring is done. My electrician has attempted to wire in my kinetic receivers but has hit a snag. I have 4 lighting circuits for the outhouse; 1 inside and a further 3 outside. All of them are hardwired to switches, but I intended to use the wireless receivers and switches to enable 2-way control from the house too. My electrician's wired in a temporary switch and a receiver from 'Curv 360' and claims it can't be done: with the receiver in circuit it's either set to pass a signal which can be turned off and on again by the wired switch, or set to break the signal, in which case the wired switch can't 'un-break' it. Both switches can't seem to have independent control of the the circuit, if that makes any sense. Is it actually possible to take an existing wired installation and add wireless controllers into it, or do I have to go completely wireless and bin the wired stuff (or go wired and have to run new cables to the house)?

 

Neither scenario is attractive as I have 4 separate circuits, all of which need to be dimmable, but Quinetic only do 2 gang dimmer switches, and they are not IP68 either. I could use lots of powergrid compatible modules, but then the budget really does get out of hand.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Has anyone had any experience mixing wired with wireless?

[Onoff]

QUWS2W is a Quinetic IP67 2 gang switch which can control dimmer receivers.

 

 

[efunc]

2 hours ago, Onoff said:

QUWS2W is a Quinetic IP67 2 gang switch which can control dimmer receivers.

 

 

OK, thanks. And I just checked again and there is a 3-gang version too: QU WS3W

 

So, if I'm to understand correctly, you can't have a hard-wired switch and a wireless receiver controlling the same circuit? If there's only one permanent Live coming in it has to go to either the wired switch or the wireless receiver I guess, and daisy chain off that, so one is always 'master'. That was the basis of my wiring plan, but appears to be a mistake. In fact I just watched Part 1 of the Shed Wiring video on Youtube and realised the hard wired switch I thought he'd installed in that installation was actually a Quinetic one inside an MK faceplate!

 

Shed Rewire, Part 1

 

So, on that basis, could you set me in the right direction for re-envisioning my light wiring plan? 

 

I have 1 circuit in the garden room of 4 dimmable downlighters which need be controlled only from inside that room. But I also have one circuit of the outside lights wired to a switch here which also needs to be controlled from outside too. So the 4 downlighters need a wired dimmer switch, and the outside circuit needs a QU R301 dimming receiver. So for this I might need one of the 2-gang MK or Varilight faceplates with one being hardwired for the inside and one being a Quinetic dimmer (if these are dimmable). Failing that, a normal 1-gang hardwired dimmer, and a separate QU D11W for controlling the outside.

 

For the switch outside doing the remaining 3 circuits I just need to bin my Masterplug weatherproof hardwired switch and fit one QU WS3W and place another 2 QU R301 dimming receivers into the wiring. I'm guessing this is about right.