Has anybody tried the QuickBase pile foundation system?

[howplum]

Whilst waiting for the plot purchase to move forward I am still undecided on the build method of a 130 sqare metre bungalow, although I am tending to favour either timber frame, or SIPs, or a hybrid of the two.

 

Anyway, I saw an advert for this lightweight pile system on the back of a magazine which piqued my interest:

 

https://www.shire-uk.com/product/shire-quickbase/

 

 

Although apparently more expensive than the traditional concrete it does seem to have a number of advantages, one of which is a degree of adjustability to meet the frame manufacturer's stringent criteria on levels. It seems to me that it should also provide a predictability of cost, provided the required topographical survey is done.

 

Apparently the insulated floor slabs need covering with timber sheets if UFH is to be installed and they are even strong enough to be used for a garage, so no more lying on a cold floor!

 

A brick outer skin can be accommodated, though this obviously has an effect on the structural calculations.

 

The depth of excavation is only 600mm and is only required where the beams sit, so potentially much less muck to cart away, and therefore less disruption on the single track cul-de-sac where the plot is.

 

It seems an attractive idea to me, but I welcome any comments .

Edited August 28, 2019 by howplum

[Jeremy Harris]

This looks to be a combination of conventional mini screw piles (like these, for example: https://www.minipilingsystems.co.uk/screw-piles/    http://www.groundsun.co.uk/content/screw-pile-foundations/  ) with a ring beam.  Might be useful on difficult ground, or an area where sub-surface stuff needs to be protected, but probably a bit costly when compared to other solutions.  If piles are needed, then it may be worth considering, but otherwise I suspect that other foundation solutions may be more cost effective.

[ToughButterCup]

Sure you need piles? I have a feeling you could be crossing an unnecessary bridge.... maybe?

[howplum]

The plot itself appears to be straightforward, having had a non-residential building on it for several decades, until a couple of years ago, when the vendor demolished it.

 

Yes, I might be accused of over-thinking the matter, but what appeals to me is the technical nature of the system, as well as the other benefits, such as speed, reduced disruption and traffic, accuracy and predictability of costs. Of course, I might go right off the idea when I get a quotation, but in the meantime I am just exploring the alternatives.

 

Perhaps my question should be wider, such as "What are the pros and cons of micropiling against concrete trench fill foundations?"

[Patrick]

@howplum spoke to all of them, as I need piles and have a very tricky plot.

Result: All Screwpiles(including what you been looking at) are stupid expensive. Dont quite know why, but they just are. Thats the reason why they not used more often in the UK . I tend to think (from google research) that they are more often used in the US and Australia, but might be wrong.

Here , if you Pile , it s driven Piles all day every day(meaning most widely used, accepted, insurable, mortgageable ...just easiest , others obviously might disagree)

 

I mainly turned away from driven piles and anything involving Foundations WITHOUT concrete , for the durabitlity reason. There is not much long time testing going on with those.

They SAY that they should be alright for 100 years ++ , and in theory they can be. But havent read much about old examples of houses that are build with Steel Piles.

And since the costs are extreme, for any Piled solution , I would (and I am) go with the most rock solid option .

 

 

[Russell griffiths]

Have you not thought about an insulated slab. @howplum

[Jeremy Harris]

Our insulated slab took 4 days to lay, start to finish.  Guys turned up very early Monday morning, were off site late on Thursday night, having levelled the area, laid the insulation and DPM down, tied in all the steel reinforcement, fitted all the UFH pipes, service pipes, ducts etc, poured the concrete on the Thursday morning and finished power floating it dead smooth and level (ready to lay flooring on directly) late on the Thursday evening.  That was an 85m² slab for a 130m² 1 1/2 storey house.

[howplum]

@JSHarris, thanks for the information. You seem to have followed the method suggested by Mark Brinkley in his excellent Housebuilder's Bible 12, in that you dispensed with the screed and used a power floated finish instead. He also said that not many people plan ahead enough to incorporate the UFH pipes into the slab.  Can I ask how much your slab cost please? Mark Brinkley suggests a figure of £83 per m², albeit including screed, but not including fitting the UFH pipes. I notice you didn't mention hardcore and sand blinding though.

 

As to the micropiling system, I will put that idea further down the list for the moment.  Because I will be building a bungalow the foundations/floor represent a higher percentage of the overall cost per square metre than for a 2 storey house, so even a 10% difference between various systems could be £2 - 3,000.

[Jeremy Harris]

21 minutes ago, howplum said:

@JSHarris, thanks for the information. You seem to have followed the method suggested by Mark Brinkley in his excellent Housebuilder's Bible 12, in that you dispensed with the screed and used a power floated finish instead. He also said that not many people plan ahead enough to incorporate the UFH pipes into the slab.  Can I ask how much your slab cost please? Mark Brinkley suggests a figure of £83 per m², albeit including screed, but not including fitting the UFH pipes. I notice you didn't mention hardcore and sand blinding though.

 

As to the micropiling system, I will put that idea further down the list for the moment.  Because I will be building a bungalow the foundations/floor represent a higher percentage of the overall cost per square metre than for a 2 storey house, so even a 10% difference between various systems could be £2 - 3,000.

 

 

Nothing to do with Mark Brinkley, I'm afraid, I'd not heard of him when we contracted for our build. 

 

Our Kore foundation was a part of the frame package, so I don't have the exact cost to hand, but when I first got quotes for similar passive slab foundations the cost was around £10k +/- ~£1k for our 85m², including the UFH pipes etc.  The companies I looked at were Supergrund, Kore and Isoquick, there are others worth looking at now that weren't around when I was looking.  

 

The guys blinded and levelled for the insulation on day one of the four days:

 

 

Then laid the insulation, DPM, etc and tied in the UFH pipes by day three:

 

 

 

The concrete was poured on day four, here it is before it was power floated:

 

[PeterW]

30 minutes ago, howplum said:

You seem to have followed the method suggested by Mark Brinkley in his excellent Housebuilder's Bible 12, in that you dispensed with the screed and used a power floated finish instead. He also said that not many people plan ahead enough to incorporate the UFH pipes into the slab.

 

Brinkley is out of date on a lot of things - that’s one of them ..! this has been a pretty standard method for at least the past 10-12 years and it’s one I’ve used a number of times. 

 

Bear in mind you need to look at reinforcing and the insulation for a ground bearing slab (what MB refers to, not what @JSHarris has) at BRegs application and design point, MB saying people don’t plan ahead for UFH is a little odd ... 

[howplum]

Passive slab foundation- that looks interesting. Another option for the list to be investigated. If I understand correctly, the site is usually excavated to a depth of 600mm, unless conditions dictate otherwise, and a highly insulated raft foundation built up, obviating the need for trenches.

 

Being a self build virgin I find Mark Brinkley's book very useful, and interesting, but to be tempered with questions on this wonderful forum, where real world experiences can be applied.

[Jeremy Harris]

3 minutes ago, howplum said:

Passive slab foundation- that looks interesting. Another option for the list to be investigated. If I understand correctly, the site is usually excavated to a depth of 600mm, unless conditions dictate otherwise, and a highly insulated raft foundation built up, obviating the need for trenches.

 

Being a self build virgin I find Mark Brinkley's book very useful, and interesting, but to be tempered with questions on this wonderful forum, where real world experiences can be applied.

 

Ours was excavated 200mm below level ground from the site levelling work, and this 200mm was filled with compacted Type 3 stone, with drainage around the edge (just a buried 100mm land drain pipe).  There wouldn't normally be a need to excavate as much as 600mm unless the ground conditions were particularly poor.

 

This is the 200mm compacted stone layer which was blinded and levelled with grit for the insulation:

 

[howplum]

@JSHarrisEven better! Less work and less muck away. How much above the landscaped ground level is the finished floor?

[Jeremy Harris]

3 minutes ago, howplum said:

@JSHarrisEven better! Less work and less muck away. How much above the landscaped ground level is the finished floor?

 

 

This section through the base of our build gives an idea of the relative levels:

 

 

Because we'd stripped a lot of muck off our site to get it level, and we were left with just subsoil, I imported a fair bit of topsoil (none of the old stuff was re-usable, full of greenstuff and waste).  This meant building up the drive level with crushed concrete as well, and when we paved around the house this raised the level by around 200mm above the level of the base of the insulation.  We filled the drain area around the periphery of the house with similar coarse stone to the Type 3 used under the insulation, but with the top 100mm being a local decorative aggregate.  Ground level ended up being a bit over the 150mm below finished floor level/DPM required (our DPM is at FFL).

[howplum]

Having done a little more research it looks as though an insulated slab might be the way to go, and based on a cursory calculations might not be much more expensive than conventional foundations/floor systems, bearing in mind the advantages of speed, reduced excavating and spoil removal, less concrete and better insulation.

[Conor]

I've costed up insulated raft for our 100m² footprint comes out at about £35m² largely DIY. Obviously if going for a MC, you would double this.

Edited August 31, 2019 by Conor

[Conor]

15 minutes ago, howplum said:

Having done a little more research it looks as though an insulated slab might be the way to go, and based on a cursory calculations might not be much more expensive than conventional foundations/floor systems, bearing in mind the advantages of speed, reduced excavating and spoil removal, less concrete and better insulation.

On paper, it should be better value compared to traditional system. Largely due to less excavation, simpler excavation (no marking out of trenches), no rising walls, no secondary screed, smaller concrete volume. You're putting more money in to the formwork tho. But it makes eveything else simpler.